Forget for a moment how the stewards reached their decision, the feeling in the media centre here is that a truly fantastic race – indeed, a great weekend after the bitterness of Spa last year – has been tainted by Formula One policing itself in a manner that makes it look incompetent.
Reading the reactions in the accompanying blogs, it seems to be that if you don’t like Lewis Hamilton, then you think the decision is correct. And if you’re not necessarily a devoted fan of Hamilton but interested in decent racing, then it was… puzzling.
The FIA is never going to win, of course. Not when it lets Ferrari off the hook for releasing Felipe Massa alongside a Force India in Valencia and then making Bruno Senna have a drive through penalty for exactly the same thing during the GP2 race here on Saturday.
The argument in Hamilton’s case is that he did not back off enough as the Ferrari came by and gained enough momentum to retake the lead going into La Source. If that was so, then how come the Ferrari was in front of the McLaren – I mean, dead ahead of Hamilton – as they reached the braking area?
It seemed to me that Kimi simply outfumbled himself and Lewis went by. McLaren’s technology apparently shows that Hamilton was 6 kph slower than Raikkonen as they crossed the start/finish line, which is 250 metres from La Source. Where is the ‘advantage’ in that?
If the overtaking move had occurred just before the actual finish, and Hamilton had dived up the inside to do it, then there might have been a case to answer. But, the way things turned out, Raikkonen actually managed to retake the lead when they came across the spinning Williams of Nico Rosberg half way round the next lap. So where was Hamilton’s alleged advantage at the end of all that? It was Raikkonen who ultimately spun off and presented Hamilton with the lead.
It would be good to find out exactly what sort of information the stewards had at their disposal when reaching a decision which, one leading sponsor told me this evening, makes big company board rooms question the wisdom of being associated with a sport that appears to shoot itself in the foot.
I’m just sorry that we should be discussing this rather than a fantastic motor race on one of the world’s great race tracks.
Ahh, I’ve been refreshing this page so often since I heard the verdict yesterday. It seems that this is the only page around that will actualy offer up some oppinion, as opposed to simply presenting the facts and trying to be as neutral as possible on the matter.
I’m not a devoted fan of any driver, just a fan of the sport in general.
Actually I’ll have to say “Sport”, as currently it’s just a bloody farse.
Anyway Mauraice, give me what I came here for, Oppinion. I’d love to know exactly what you think is going on behind closed doors, speculation or not.
What I don’t understand is why the marshalls were so reluctant to hand out a results affecting penalty to massa in the last race after the podium was decided,then so eager to do it this time. Regardless of who was/wasn’t at fault, changing the results of a race through penalties after it has finished seems indecisive. Surely a fine, or a penalty for the start of the nezt race is a far better way of punishing incidents too much in doubt to deal with during a race in any case?
Clearly the FIA and stewards saw “red”.
After seeing Mosley’s saggy rasher arse in the tabloids, I don’t think I want to see what goes on behing FIA’s closed doors.
in my opinion i truly beliewe that hamilton did gain advantage in lap 42 trying to overtake kimi.
lets just for second forget the whole thing and think if anyone would drive through chicanes when they felt like they can overtake even in the most stupid places..
i mean there was a start finish line ahead-why did he not wait until that in order to overtake? if that was a monaco or valencia etc-hardly hamilton would be doing that if there was a wall..
it is not a sony playstation game you know.. it is racing on the track. the rulebook says that when this happens the car should back off till next two corners-which he did not.
thanks Maurice for your opinion.
it was a fantastic race..
cheers
The penalty of 25 seconds is the same as a drivethrough, that’s why he got it after the race because it was too late in the race to give it to him at that moment. Like always in such cases it’s too close to just apply the regulations. We can discuss all day long but I think if hamilton was a bit more experienced, he would have backed up much more after cutting that chicane then catching raikkonen some time later. And in such case, there wouldn’t even be anything to discuss.
Again a case of if it was Ferrari who had done it, the decision would be different. Makes you wonder how many marshals on their payroll.
Disgusting Outcome,
Clearly the best race of the season and a clean if scrappy win for the the guy that drove the best and stayed on the track. Such a shame that the FIA have chosen to cheat and strip him of this win.
I will no longer be watching F1 and am also no longer purchasing four tickets for the Singapore GP.
JB.
You really do feel that there is some form of favouritism going on that the FIA have for Ferrari. What grudge does the FIA carry to constantly ‘bully’ McLaren whenever they get a genuine advantage?
I think that not only should the penalty be reversed, but the so-called stewards should be replaced and possibly banned from participating in any motor sport association. Simply look at their inconsistent and ‘Ferrari-biased’ track record. No pun to Ferrari intended.
he had cutted a chicane. after he surrendered the lead to raikkonen,but just instead of him. if he hadn´t cutted the chicane,he would not be abble to pass raikkonen at the end of the straight. he had to have waited to the next corner, but he is so impatient.last year hamilton has got the championship in his hands and lost it, even when he had his biggest rival on his team,controlled and tied up (who was systematically sanctioned last year?)the sanction is fair
for those sad peoples who still think that that was unfair-think again or else good luck
comon guys move on
this weekend in italy..
hah i think that someone will shine..
Honestly I think that Hamilton did a fantastic drive in the last laps and compared to Raikkonen he was better, there is no doubt about that.
However I have to say that we I saw Hamilton cutting the chicane in the “bus stop” he did that to took and advantage deliberately, he did not brake and follow the race line, he push the throttle and cut the corner.
I think Hamilton he should be penalize according to the rules, 25 seconds, a fee.. nothing that will depend on what the rules say.
Some say that Hamilton should have taken Kimi on the straight. Firstly mate, the track was dodgy. secondly in a straight line the ferrari was faster. I must say this that hamilton has shown how cool he is by demonstrating a spectacle of an overtake.
Firstly, Hamilton pulled a dummy on kimi so that means thats a fair overtake.
Secondly, Kimi didnt raise his hand, “ever” to the martials of any complaint against it.
Sorry but the ferraris have been propostrous in the wet as demonstrated earlier in the season by massa and kimi spinning a million times.
I just cant imagine how can the FIA get away with this. I think the stewards who called quality racing should, atleast resign to register grief.
And may be join Britian’s Health and Safety department.
Blatent Ferrari Bias, the decision against Hamilton and Massa’s so-called “punishment” shows how much the FIA see Ferrari not as a Team but as a pillar of the sport, I think it’s about time the rules were stuck to by ALL teams, and not handed to whoever the FIA don’t like in a particular race. It’s spoiled one of the most memorable races in years.
I hate to say it but I think the main culprit for the decision is a Mr Eccelstone – after all he wants as close a season as possible to keep the viewing figures up.
It is just a method of engineering a last race shootout for the title.
Have some of you people watched replays? Hamilton was clearly pushed off the track, and was actually ahead of Raikonen when they entered that chicane, Hamilton let him repass, and there is no rule as to how much you have to do that, Hamilton clearly outdrove Raikonen, who then crashed on his own accord.
Raikonen also cut a corner later that same lap, and clearly gained an advantage by driving round the run off instead of the wet and slippy track, but that was not investigated, why?
I am not even a Hamilton fan, more a fan of the sport, but after decisions like these i don’t think we can call it a sport anymore, the men in suits are more interested in politics than the simply amazing car control and racing that took place on the track.
Maurice is tripping again… hes breathing drug called LHO – lewis hamilton obsession.
If Lewis would had corrected he’s lines, and would had drove la source without slipping away from track, there is no 1 that he would had overtaken Kimi on next straight, Just opposite, Kimi would lead by around half seconds at 1st corner.
Kimi did drive better race, Kimi and Lewis both spinned twice, but again Lewis had only luck more than Kimi. Kimi was controlling race as he wanted, keeping gap to Ham’ on one or two seconds all the time, he forced to Lewis push harder, which everyone can see on Ham’s driving, awful lot of sliding and slipping. But weather wasnt on Kimi’s side, Again Kimi suffers most for weather (or alternavily safety car)
Maurice is trying to pull attention away from the fact, that Kimi is better driver at Spa’s GP by accusing FIA.
Top Gear lap times, now adjusted for the new reality -
1 Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
2 Ferrari 599 GTB 1.21.2
3 Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
4 Ferrari F430 1.22.9
5 Ascari A10 1.42.3
6 Koenigsegg CCX (with TG spoiler) 1.42.6
7 Pagani Zonda F 1.43.4
8 Maserati MC12 1.43.9
9 Ariel Atom 1.44.5
10 Lamborghini LP640 1.44.8
11 Porsche Carrera GT 1.44.8
12 Ascari KZ1 1.45.7
13 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 1.45.9
14 Ford GT 1.46.9
15 Porsche GT3 RS 1.47.3
16 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1.47.4
17 Noble M15 1.47.5
18 Lamborghini Murcielago 1.48.7
19 Pagani Zonda 1.48.8
20 Koenigsegg 1.48.9
21 Audi R8 1.49.4
22 TVR Sagaris 1.49.6
23 Mitsubishi Evo FQ 400 1.49.8
24 Noble M400 1.50.0
25 Lotus Exige S 1.50.1
F1 now stands for “Ferrari Number One”
What a waste of a good race.
I think that Louis is a very good driver (I was especially pleased looking how he was demolishing Fernando “The Crying Owl” Alonso last year), but the fact is that he is prepared to win at any cost legal or not.
Just remember how he crushed into Kimis’ car, OK he was penalized but that didn’t bring points back to Kimi. Also, last year, don’t remmember which race but it was a heavy rain, 4 or 5 cars were out on the same place and only Louis was pushed back, there was no comment on that.
And last but not least, I don’t understand how can anyone say he did not gain advantage. Let me explain, he tried to pass Kimi but he closed the way and Louis had to brake, but he did not since he would loose too much time so he cut the corner and theres his advantage.
Maybe its just the stewards haven’t seen an overtaking manoeuvre in so long they taught it must have been illegal. Both McLaren cars were at the wrong end of this rule of overtaking unfairly or clumsily, its nearly impossible to drive that close to another car with the aerodynamics they use. I’ve sat through some mind numbing races waiting for some proper racing and the race of the season is tarnished with this joke of a decision.
To what Edgars is saying.
I think the fia have ruined the sport enough for some people to stop caring what goes on this coming weekend in Monza. i know at least 10 people who have watched every race since 1990 who aren’t going to keep watching because this is now a sport purely governed by who the fia wants to win and not by what the real outcome is
Hamilton out.
I agree with Milos, he could have braked heavily and not cut the corner, by cutting the corner he didn’t loose that time.
Advantage found.
PS
i wrote comment and it is gone
we are beeing watched…
scary
Lets look at this simply. Lewis would always have finished in front of Massa regardless of his position in front or behind Raikonen.Raikonen lost it because he is crap in the wet not through any conflagration with Hamilton. This is all self evident so on that evidence and other strange decisions lately FIA do seem to be showing bias. FIA need to turn this around sharpish or be held up to the world as favouring Ferrari.
Complete farce! It’ll sound like sour grapes but if Massa can get away with nearly causing a crash similar to Hamilton hitting Raikkonen in the pitlane and then Hamilton is forced off the track only to rejoin and surrender the position and only regain it when Kimi lost control independantly how is that fair? Add to this the fact that Kimi ran well wide and came back at Hamilton using the run off area to get more grip- definitely an advantage- but then crashed: i BET that if he had rejoined the track and managed to get past lewis he wouldn’t have been penalised, purely because he drives for someone that isn’t MCLAREN!
But why should he have broken heavily?! he was in front of Raikonen before the chicane, and was not going too fast, he only cut the corner because Raikonen pushed him out, and his choices were cut in and take Raikonen and himself out of the race, or brake heavily, penalising himself, why would anyone penalise themselves like that?
Its also been proven that he slowed down to let Raikonen passed, he then outbroke him, the 250m were not enough for Hamilton to build up the slipstream to get passed, it was in the braking area that he passed him, nice and cleanly, by simply being the better driver.
i re-iterate, i am NOT a Hamilton fan, just telling it like it happened.
…the fact that Kimi ran well wide and came back at Hamilton using the run off area to get more grip- definitely an advantage…
Well, I don’t know what you were watching but let me just point out that Kimi was going on the exactly the same line Louis was so i’m not sure where is that advantage?!?!
the Ferrari Interests Association strikes again. Spanky Maxy and his (bar) race stewards have been destroying the “sport” for years now ever since max fell out with Ron.
One of the most exciting races in F1 and then spoilt by a bunch of lunatics (FIA).
WHAT COULD BE WORSE?
..YOU DRIVING FORMULA 1 CAR
The crucial point is fairness. Massa was not disadvantaged so should not inherit a GP win if Kimmy had managed to remain on track then a stewards inquiry could have been instigated and a an appropriate penalty or fine imposed if Lewis was clearly shown to have gained a real advantage.
It does seem a shame that the result is decided behind closed doors, but it’s very easy for us to pass comment on the FIA, having watched the British media and been presented with a fairly biased view.
In my opinion, Kimi and Lewis are evenly matched in terms of driving skill, but Kimi is inferior when the conditions are wet. This was evident on Sunday, regardless of the controversy. Kimi managed to bin his car under no provocation from Lewis.
I don’t believe the FIA favours Ferrari, but I do think they make inconsistent decisions. I also believe Lewis is amazingly talented, but sometimes prone to making rash decisions. He will be world champ, hopefully this year, but needs to be icy cool 100% of the time (see M Schumacher for reference – remember him being a berk in his early days, taking off Damon etc?) to dominate the sport.
All of you are blind to the simple fact, not opinion, that if Hamilton did not cut the final chicane, he simply would not be close enough to make a move on Raikonnen.
Raikonnen forced Hamilton out wide (whether this is a sporting manouvre is another issue altogether), if Hamilton had stayed on track, he would have been alot further back than he was and not able to make any sort of passing manouvre. Cutting across the chicane gave him this opportunity, and this is were the unfair advantage was gained, fair enough he ‘backed off’ but he did it in a way which kept him close enough for a manouvre.
There is alot of biased and plain sillyness on this thread.
love the track loved the race hopefully its a sign of things to come next year and into the future, i thought it was good to c kimi get a bit more form lets be onest he’s out. But lets get the important stuff i’m a ferrari fan and although at first i was totaly pissed off at the result (ferrari losesing) i couldn’t belive y hamilton got a pennaty i actually went back and watched the last couple of laps and tried to work out were he had commited the sin i couldn’t find anything!! i was amazed when i saw on the news wat corner had casued him all his trouble. wat a pity it had to end that way
…and that’s why I watch WTCC
Well I think that most us can argue is it fair or not. Those that are living “red” would say it’s ok. Those that see something else might not. Regardless of that fair is only what you do again and again regardless of when and to whom. Now when you think of Valencia and Bruno Senna this makes you think. FIA is amending and bending rules as they always had. But let’s be fair. Its best for us, so we don’t have an boring championship…… Right !?
USELESS FIA ARE DUMB AND ITS A GOOD THING THAT THE FIA DON’T RUN TOPGEAR BECAUSE IF THAT HAPPENED THEN A LAP OF TOPGEARS TEST TRACK IN A FERRARI WOULD BE 5(FERRARI SHOUTS OF THE LINE) 4, 3, 2, 1(FERRARI ALREADY AT FIRST CORNER), GO! SECOND CORNER TOWARD THE TIRE WALL TURN LEFT (DON’T BOTHER WITH THE HAMMERHEAD AND THAT PART OF THE TRACK IN A FERRARI) AT THE SECOND TO LAST CORNER AND STOP THE CLOCK DON’T BOTHER WITH THE LAST CORNER AND THEN TAKE 5 SECONDS OF THE TIME. THATS WHAT THEY’RE DOING WITH F1 AND LEWIS STILL WINS SO THEY SEARCH THE REPLAY’S FOR SOME EXCUSE TO HAND THE LEAD TO A FERRARI.
oh dear oh dear here we go again.When the outcome of any sport depends on oppinion (in this case the f1 stewards) to determine the result then the result will never be satisfactory. If there is a rule (as one of the ealier comments suggest) that you have to allow 2 corners after such an incident before you can offertake then fair enough Hamilton should know this rule and therefore except the punnishment along with all his supporters (i am one!) . The rules should be black and white and not open to interpretation therefore avoiding any dispute and showing f1 to be a healthy well run sport. If the rule simply says not to take an advantage after such an episode then its too vague and definetley needs updating. If Masa ends up winning the championship by a point or 2 because of this farce it will be a hollow victory .
edgars, I’ve noticed the disappearing comments too… Jamie Hibbards blog had at one point 317 comments, few minutes later only 300. Off to room 101 I suppose.
…Actually I wonder does the FIA have a Ministry of Consistant and un-biased Rulings?
Am I the only one who thought Kimi drove a great race and that it’s great to see him back on form?
Seems to me that the FIA and F1 just want the championship to go to the wire, more exciting that way = more viewers = more money. The only people to suffer are McClaren and Hamilton, i just hope he wins the championship, and then tells the FIA where to go!
Alot of you are forgetting it’s not the FIA who actually made the decision, the decision was made by the race stewards who are the race stewards of the track itself, not the FIA.
That is why the decision was’nt a biased one, also, the reason decisions seem to go in Ferrari’s favour is because they have a closer PROFESSIONAL working relationship with the FIA, whereas Mclaren hardly bother to make an effort when it comes to communicating with the FIA, remember, Mclaren started the GPMA which was more or less a failed attempt to overthrow the FIA.
You guts are not looking at the bigger picture and you are subconsciously being biased…very biased. Also, Kimi Raikonnen’s crash might have been caused by a puncture, his left rear looked deflated during and after the crash, so saying he’s ’shit’ is a very stupid thing to say, remember his performance at Fuji last year?
Kimi spun out and handed the lead to Lewis on a silver platter. Hamilton won because of his superior skills; his off track adventure at the chicane had no effect on the final out come whatsoever. The FIA gave the penalty just to be a tight ass as all sport governing agency should be. (But for some reason – however obvious it might be -the tension in their anal cavity always seem to relax when Ferrari was in question.)
While the FIA is busy making diamond by shoving pieces of wood up their butt, we, race enthusists – Hamilton fan or not – question the fairness of their decision. I personally think that a 25sec penalty after the race is simply unfair. Lewis backed off completely after Kimi went out. Unlike a drive through, the post-race-25sec did not give Lewis a chance to make up the time. Who knows, Lewis might still make third if he hadn’t cruised to the finish.
Aside from the FIA with all their diamonds, the true winner of this decision is us, F1 fans. With Massa just two points behind Lewis, it will surely be a good fight for the championship. The only question that remains is whether the Brazillian can deliver when it’s time for him to shine.
Hear hear Maurice. Hamilton gained no advantage whatsoever. He would have lost momentum by not driving flat out to let Kimi by and the run to La Source is far too short to gain by slipstreaming. I f the stewards base their decision on this dubious “advantage” then can someone please tell me why Kimi wasn’t penalised for running the whole length of the run off area at Pouhon when both he and Lewis ran wide? Kimi gained an obvious advantage on the dirty and grippier tarmac. If this is allowed then why even have boundaries to the circuit?
I have supported F1 for 30 years and defend it to the hilt under all it’s criticisms because it is in my view the pinnacle of motorsport. This race was what people have been crying out for after the dire races served up recently. Now we have to face the prospect of drivers who are too scared to overtake for fear of the consequences. You might as well watch traffic on the M1.
I do not agree with the verdict. Mainly because I don’t like post race penalties. It just kills the sport.
IMHO, however, I think Lewis did gain an advantage. Kimi might have cut across Lewis’ nose but that’s completely fair. He was never in front Lewis had no chance in keeping his line which is exactly the point. He should have backed off. If you run out track you dont make your own.
I don’t blame Lewis though. The rules are too vague. The way they come up with the penalties is even worse. If they want to keep the rules, fine. They could put walls around chicanes instead.
If Massa wins the WDC, I hope he does it by more than 8 pts. It would be sad to have an asterisk on your championship.
Stop Being Biased, the FIA have their rules. There is NO conspiracy against Hamilton. He just broke the rules and now he’s paying for it.
First off let me just say;
I’m not a huge ‘Hamilton’ fan – Unquestionably I think his skill as a driver is immense and I’m all for seeing a British F1 champion, yet, as a fan I can never seem to connect with him or accept the ‘Senna-like’ statements & conclusions often made about him? Maybe over time he will grow on me?
Anyway – yesterday’s race climax was truly fantastic and on hearing Lewis’s demotion my first reaction was that of utter disgust towards the FIA & race stewards – I felt a great race had sadly been ruined.
Now that some time has passed and after reading a lot of opinions on other websites I now have mixed feelings over the whole incident.
The decision to demote Lewis to 3rd place is just wrong – I’ve watched the footage again and I have to agree that he did in-fact gain an advantage! Bare with me please; yes, Lewis did indeed allow Kimi back through, but he undid that act by not backing off enough (an admittance in his own interview today) and attacking at the ‘immediate’ next corner! If he had tucked up behind Kimi at the hair pin not only would he of been in a great position to slip stream the Ferrari on the straight following Eau Rouge (the Mclaren clearly having the better straight line speed on race day) but in the stewards & officials eyes he would clearly of given back any advantage gained.
Obviously it’s very easy for me to judge Hamilton’s actions, sat from the comfort of my living room – I wasn’t the one making a split second decision in a sport where ‘winning’ really is everything!…!
However, Kimi’s subsequent DNF (of his own doing) meant that regardless of said incident – any FIA intervention in the final race standings is completely un-justified as it did NOT affect the outcome of the race! Face it – do you really think that when asked Kimi will blame parking his Ferrari into a wall because a lap earlier Lewis Hamilton cut a corner…!?
Hamilton ‘should’ keep the win and for his wrong doings at the final chicane; a grid place penalty at the next race would have been more than sufficient & fair!
Sadly, it seems that once again – ‘politics’ are set to spoil this great sport of ours! We will never know just how much Ferrari played a part in events (regardless of statements made) after the race but let’s face it, should it really matter…?
What matters is yet again the politics and not the racing is set to dominate the conclusion of the season!
Excellent Lesson! If you’re following a guy towards a chicane always try to overtake him on the outside. ‘Cause if he closes the door on you, you can always use the run off to skip the corner. Not much of a risk, no?
mclaren must learn to play the game right and not with tricks and for those that say that FIA is “red” what about last season where they gave penalty only to mclaren and not to their drivers!!!!! when Mclaren stoled FERRARI techology but you british people seem to frogot that!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hamilton deserved it, he clearly gained an advantage.
Alonso is clearly the best driver of the field, finishing 4th in Renault, thats agood job.
Just let the Ferrari’s race fia , I mean wy do u bother wasting time for 11 other teams ,let them race alone and win 1-2 all the time ,Its enough what you have done to Mclaren and most importantly u don’t deserve a team like Mclaren in ur useless races.
Even the most unbiased third party would describe the FIA’s decision on Sunday as an OUTRAGE! It beggars belief how they expect to get away with these double standards. Independent? I don’t think so.
Two weeks ago at Valencia we saw the quite bizarre decision by the FIA not to penalise Massa during the race or subsequently strip him of his win after a clear infringement on Sutil in the pit lane. The validity of that decision was once again thrown into question when Bruno Senna was given a drive through penalty in the GP2 race at the weekend in almost identical circumstances. In the light of this evidence the only conclusion we can draw is one of blatant unadulterated favouritism towards Ferrari.
That incident pails into insignificance when compared with the absolute disgrace I witnessed yesterday. What advantage can the FIA hand on heart (not wallet) say that Hamilton got from being forced to take the safety lane. I believe they stated that he had more momentum on the start finish straight. How can you possibly argue this when Hamilton quite correctly lifted to let Raikkonen past. It was Raikkonen’s subsequent over elaborate avoidance antics that allowed Hamilton back through rather than any unfair advantage. I would also point out that Raikkonen spent time off the track gaining a slingshot at Pouhon corner. Fancy investigating that FIA?…. Didn’t think so. What about the subsequent overtaking under yellow flag conditions by Raikkonen when Rosberg limped back onto the track. What about that incident FIA?……. Didn’t think so.
To talk in too much detail about this decision would be to add weight to there even being an incident on which to make a decision. The FIA are keen to talk in their press releases about ‘Facts’. Well the simple ‘Fact’ here is that this is yet another unprecedented act of favouritism.
I believe the general viewing public of F1 are very well educated fans. Why then does the FIA continue to insulting our intelligence with these preposterous and obviously biased decisions. Perhaps more galling however is their lack of accountability in these matters. They make catastrophic unfounded decisions which make a mockery of the sport and the intelligence of its supporters with seemingly no consequence to themselves. As I said in the first line, this in an OUTRAGE!
the only thing i can say: if you let a car tru, it’s not to take your advantage back 2 a 3 sec later, a couple of years ago Alonso did the same(racing agaainst Schumi if i remember well) and he received a penalty too, so i don’t find it unfair.
He was just in the back off the ferrari just before the straight, he could use slipstream too pass him or just wait till Kimi crashed(ferrari stinks in the rain!)Greetings from Belgium, happy for the trilling race, but not for the result
I race myself:
Lewis outbraked himself, nothing worse than that.
Fiat own Ferrari, and you can’t spell Fiat without FIA.
3 of the 11 members of the World MotorSports council work for Ferrari, no other teams are represented.
The sport it being ruined, but we as fans should not walk away, instead we should fight for change.
So, at the next FIA elections: Vote for Josh Wood.
immediately at the end of the race, i had thought lewis had won it. but when i first heard of the stewards decision, i too was puzzled.. to begin with.
the explanation is best understood when analyzed scene by scene while closely watching and rewatching those moments under scrutiny by the stewards.
1.
-when kimi and lewis were battling into the final chicane before the home straight, they were side by side going into turn 18.
-kimi is on the inside line and lewis is on the outside line.
-while kimi stays on the racing line, lewis tries to go around the outside of kimi.
-notice that kimi did not actually “push” lewis off the road. lewis simply ran out of it as he does not slow down enough to be able to safely make the final turn 19.
2.
-following this, lewis has no option but to cut the corner to avoid colliding with kimi, which is fair play.
-yes, lewis does slow up to allow kimi to repass him.
-BUT- and this is where the stewards are pinning lewis with the penalty:
-lewis only allows kimi to momentairly pass him before he begins to accelerate again.
-so what’s the problem? -lewis is directly behind kimi’s gearbox.
-and what is wrong about that?
-the advantage gained by lewis from cutting the corner is that he was able to be right behind kimi’s gearbox going into the first corner
-whereas if he had completed turn 19 instead of cutting across it, he would have been much further behind kimi during the acceleration phase out of the last corner (as affectionately termed by martin brundle as the “concertina” or simply “yo-yo” effect).
-THUS- the penalty of a drive through was handed to lewis.
-it can be said that lewis did not let kimi repass in the intention of letting him regain the position.
-rather lewis took advantage of the situation by minimizing the time he had to let kimi to repass and then immediately going on to attack the position.
-a situation that attracts the same penalty is by passing under yellow flags.
-if a faster ‘car A’ overtakes a slower ‘car B’ through a corner under waved yellows then momentarily allows ‘car B’ to repass on the following straight for a fraction of a second before accelerating into the open space ahead to retake the position then ‘car A’ would be investigated and handed a drive through penalty.
-it can be argued on technicality that ‘car A’ allowed ‘car B’ to repass but intentionally it would not have been the case as ‘car A’ took advantage of a situation that he would otherwise not have had.
-so in actuality the view of the stewards is that lewis overtook kimi by taking advantage of a situation that he wouldn’t have had if he’d correctly piloted through the final corner.
-also the penalty is not for lewis cutting the corner, rather it is for not returning the equivalent gap that kimi would have had going down the straight (1-2 car lengths based on the head start kimi would have had to begin accelerating out of the final corner before lewis).
-so in conclusion, the penalty although cruel had reasoning and had lewis given kimi an acceptable “normal” gap after the repass he would have most certainly not received the equivalent of a drive through penalty implemented after the race.
lewis hamilton gained a positional advantage that allowed him to make the overtake a lot easier than it otherwise would have been.
are we talking about racing or green tables? Racing drivers want to overtake and win and as fan I want to see hard but fair actions (gentleman drivers). Hamilton tried it, Kimi shut the door in the last corner and this is the reason for leaving the braking zone!!! Well, even Niki Lauda said it on german television (completely ok). In my point of view the FIA and the sport is losing everything with this descision. FYI – I stop watching this unreal politic driven ferrari show. You should knew when you have lost a race and not go whining to the green table…
from where I was- in a fairly overhead position on some banking at the chicane- Kimi drove Lewis off the track. Cutting the chicane was his only option as Kimi was moving across Lewis’ path and braking would not have prevented a collision. This was not an unfair move. What is unfair is the FIA handed an incorrest decision. I could see Lewis steadily falling behind Kimi as they headed up towards the finish line before they disappeared from view.
I watched the incident on the posted youtube video to make sure that the incident appeared the same from another angle. It did. And I can’t believe my first grand prix was marred by the FIA handing over a penalty that was clearly the result of Lewis daring to compete for the lead in a non-McLaren. Dispicable.
Luckily I didn’t find out about the penalty till a few hours later, after the podium celebration, after the press conferance. At least I was able to enjoy the true result while I was at the track. I don’t know if its the same for everyone- whether or not the TV coverage had ended before the penalty was imposed- but at least everyone was able to enjoy the race right up until the end.
Unfortunately, if the FIA let the decision stand and McLarens appeal is denied, I will be boycotting F1. I don’t want to watch a sport where my disapointments are not from the results, but from the governing body engineering each race so that one team comes off better than the rest. If Lewis comes within 6 points of the championship this year, then he’s won it. End of.
To see if there was an advantage you have to answer this question: If Lewis hadn’t cut the corner would he have been closer or further away from Kimi by the time they braked for the next corner as this is where the controversial pass took place.
Given they were side by side in the last corner there would of been a drag race down the straight and the outcome would most likely be the same overtaking move by Hamilton.
Spot on Inconvenient truth., of course, the fanboys here will fail to see the sense, their to busy jumping up and down at conspiracy theories.
Also, it’s worth noting, that as much as you guys may hate it, Ferrari is the most important team in F1, they get along BETTER with the FIA, this does not mean that they are being helped by the FIA, because the truth is that the FIA did not make the actual decision to penalise Hamilton, it was the race stewards of the CIRCUIT.
I wonder how those stewards can live with themselves after giving out this decision. They’re lucky it happens in Spa.. if it happens in my country, they would have been chased and pelted with rock to death
You can do whatever you like but the world is watching.
Seriously, the only thing to make F1 interesting again is get rid of those f***head stewards and the management and of course Ferrari.
I have watched the whole scene on youtube (onboard) – I am not understanding why kimi is driving so far to the left side for the first corner – especially in SPA I would cover the inside of the 1st corner… Apart from this – giving a penalty after hours is a shame… and to be honest kimi should be also get a penalty for closing up to hamilton and ?rosberg? completly off track… watch the video… I just want to see good races (no green table desicions)…
thanks Raj, i can understand how many people would be jumping up and down all over the place as most wouldn’t be able to see through the situation while their tempers are still raging. and even then i doubt many of them would want to look into the situation any further as the easier option for them is to just stick to the ‘conspiracy theory’ mantras and not be able to look beyond the “but lewis let kimi repass” section that makes up a small slice of the whole incident.
at I wonder:
sounds like your country is full of hooligans that frequent football matches to cause disruption and general chaos. not exactly something to be esteemed about.
Hamilton cut the chicane to avoid a collision. If he had gone round the chicane it would have pushed raikonen to the outside of the left hand turn of the bus stop and onto an extremely wet piece of track where he would have almost undoubtetly have spun. He then let the ferrari get back in front . It appearred that the mclaren had better traction( even in a straight line) which allowed hamilton get in close enough for the overtake on the approach for La Source. Quite a lot happened after that incident including Kimi using the run off area (which is more abrasive and therefore has more grip when wet)to gain an advantage around turn 7
sore limeys
You might argue that Kimi, although 6kph faster at the sf-line, was not sure what Lewis was doing. He was, therefore, unsettled and uncomfortable. Lewis, knowing full well what he was up to, could thus take his advantage in La Source. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but I think it’s plausible.
Kimi was braking about 2 to 3 car lengths earlier into the corners, hence when Hamilton moved behind on the striaght Kimi swerves immediatley to the left and started slowing down much earlier than Hamilton who found himself in the lead before the corner, there was no speed advantage until Kimi started to slow down
to gamosayros,
i think that you are forgeting that it was a ferrari person that gave McLaern the ferrari info. think about that
Kimi nearly killed a mechanic in the pits of Valencia!! That should have had a penalty since it involved safety if not human life!! He had a flailing exhaust a few races back and nothing!! Can someone please teach these FIA guys a lesson? Something that they won’t forget!! The FIA should stop sucking Ferrari’s horse c*ck and get on with real racing!!
Sign if you think the FIA’s decision is poo.
http://www.petitiononline .com/belgp08/petition.htm l
I will still continue to watch the sport, but am finding it ever more frustrating to see the FIA team car constantly being favoured and politics changing the outcome of races. I have read inconvenient truth’s post (Post 57.) and if they are the rules, then perhaps he did make a mistake. I personally dont believe it was an unfair move, Kimi got through etc. But where is the justice?? As i wrote yesteday, where is Kimi’s punishment for picking up an advantage by staying off of the track around 10 and 11?? Both Hamilton and Kimi slid wide later on the following lap, Hamilton returning to the track, immediately. Kimi opting to stay out wide out of the white lines, picking up a huge grip and therefore speed and momentum advantage that sees him immediately on Lewis’ gearbox. If Kimi was penalised next race for that then atleast justice might have been served… But unfortunately it still appears the FIA officials can only see red.
If you want to see what i mean about 10 and 11 on lap 43, watchhttp://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=uTo1rjn054c at 1:36. Tell me Kimi didnt gain an advantage by going off track!
This is a travesty and the lack of sportsmanship displayed by the other team principals and drivers in not condemning it is sickening. Lauda’s comments are spot on and the sport is suffering a slow death at the hands of the institutionalized slant to the tifosi.
For shame.
i honestly think the decision was fare, hamilton should not have cut it and anyone who thinks that he did not gain advantage by doing so is insane
Orange – What advantage? He out-breaked himself and had to go wider by going around the entire thing. Since he didn’t break, he didn’t gain or lose any time as you can see when he ends up with the exact amount of distance that he had with Hamilton when he entered that corner. Hamilton just ignored an entire corner and got ahead of Raikkonnen.
Let’s face it, if it happened the other way round and Kimi won the race & Lewis ended in the wall, u would have never have heard the end of it from the biased ITV cheerleaders (In favour of Lewis & McClaren – whatever happened to netural coverage of an event?)
Lewis got 2 much advantage from cutting the corner, & there was not time to give a drive through penalty, which would have taken 25 seconds, the stewards got it right, end of story!
Last word 4 the Lewis fans – Dry your eye’s!
The line that Kimi took for that second corner of the chicane was FAR from the actual raceline, you can clearly see that he delibritly went inside WAY to soon and WAY to slow (because he was on the inside to fast he would have to take the corner slower to make it out okay again…
He absolutly gave Hamilton no other choice.. even hard braking from Hamilton wouldn’t have helped since Kimi was also braking very hard to get his speed down to be able to pull his little “push the other drivers of the road” stunt, so even then Hamilton would have crashed in to Kimi and then we would be having the discussion of “Hamilton sucks.. he again drove into Kimi”…
I’ve always been a fan of Kimi, I liked his “cool”-nes… but after that little stunt? I don’t know anymore :/ it just felt like a really low thing to defend his place (then again.. was he defending? Hamilton was clearly a nose lenght in front of Kimi when they turned in… so one might say that it was actually Hamilton who was on the defending side :/ )
on a last note… I really feel ashamed that yet again the whole season is being decided in canference rooms instead of the track… it happened last year and it’s the exact same story all over again 8-/
OK and Kimi taking a wider line with a slippery surface wasnt. Yeah right.
If it were a ferrari doing that it would have been totally legitimate, isnt it.
I think a public appology is required from the FIA
Put a tire wall there rather than an escape lane and you’ll never see it happen again.
FIA have just set a precedent that if you use an escape lane (even if you back off afterward – does it say in the regs how far ahead you must let the competitors car get?) you might as well pull in the pits and shut ‘er down.
Hamilton was eating Kimi alive that whole lap, is there ANY doubt he was quicker and would re-take kimi again further down the track? What advantage then? The advantage was he was the better driver in the better car given the conditions those few closing laps.
Poor decision by FIA ruins best race of the year.
God save F1.
banana, I still maintain that Kimi picked up an advantage around turn 10 and 11, look at the extra speed, not the distance, he was going much faster out than Lewis. But more to the point, i find it a shame that politicts are producing the outcome and that F1 seems to be a parade, overtaking seems to be frowned upon. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/ en/photos/zoom/zoom.shtml ?/f1/photos/imgactu/zoom 08/hamilton-spa-z-001_070 908.jpg Is that what we want?? More Valencia boring races??
Well I was there, I did not have €500 lying around to get a place near the action and I wasn’t in front of a screen and therefore didn’t find out the bad news until 4 hours later on, which made it even more disappointing when I found out. Still it was a great race and well worth the journey and rain and the fact that I had to walk to the motorway after the race!
I don’t think our problems with hooligans come into it inconvenient truth.
You can’t give a set distance for the guilty party to fall back, how on earth are the drivers going to judge that in the race?
The whole end of the race was scrappy, with cars barely sticking to the rules anywhere on the track from what I can see, Kimi included.
The incident did not affect the outcome, why should the penalty? If Lewis had stayed behind – more pressure on Raikkonen, even more of a reason to crash.
If they couldn’t make a decision at the time it should be left until the next race, a grid drop or something. Handing Massa, a third party, a win on a “standard drive through penalty” when they didn’t DO a drive through is daft and unfair.
I’m not a fan of the sport at all but I loved the end which featured a lot of skilful drivers actually showing why they are in the sport by keeping the cars going on dry tyres. I don’t see why this single judgement call should be singled out from the rest for a penalty. Hell, at least he dared to try (one thing I hate about open wheel racing is the timidness of the drivers due to the fragility of the cars)
ONCE AGAIN! You people failed to realise that it was NOT the FIA who made the actual decision, and LostPhil, the reason the drive through was not done during the race was because it was a last lap you GOATSE.
All this uproar and conspiracy theory is the doing of ITV’s biased coverage, James Allen and Martin Brundle do nothing but kick other drivers up the backside and make excuses for Hamilton.
kimi crashed and no cutting of corners by anyone put the big shiny red car in the wall. if kimi had stayed on track i agree a penalty of some description should of been served but even under those circumstances a 25 sec penalty is insane
What most people did not realised is that Lewis won a lot of time by cutting the chicane instead of doing it correctly; if he did, he would not have been so near of Kimi who had the advantage in the chicane because he was at the interior side.
are the fia racists that is the only conclusion from this debacle.
the fia dont want a black motor racing world champion, how else do you explain such a preposterous decision?
In the old days I used to like F1 but now its even more of a forgone conclusion than it was with Schumaccer winning almost every race, because whatever happens a Ferrari ends up in front of all other opposition, whatever team they are, so It’s a bit pointless.
every 1 is saying that hamilton was forced off he wasnt hwe could of just slipped back in by braking. if he had done wat he should off he would not have been in the position to pass at la source. however even though i am a ferrari fan and not one of hamilton i do believe the punishment was fair he should of lost the time to go to second but that is all he gained on place he should of lost one. i also agree that ferrari r biased by the fia. the reason simple. Mclaren where caught in spygate and probably should have been chucked out of f1. F1 bosses probably said put a foot out of line and we will punish u. hamilton keeps making infrigments (france, canada and belgium)canada being the worst crashing in the pitlane! he will be punished. I would rather c force india win than mclaren after spygate. Also Hamilton is not as good as people think. Vettel is in my view doing better in a toro rosso than mclaren.
I so hate the stewards. Kimi was like a mule before La Source, ridiculous, he was miles slower than Lewis.
anybody with half an interest in F1 will tell you the FIA and ferrari has it in for mclaren,me thinks the italians have put the threat of a horses head under the duvet towards someone(alledgedly of course).lewis did not deliberately go off the track to gain an advantage,but he did, and gave back the lead to kimi,very british and sporting .lewis fought fair and square for that win.the FIA wouldn’t know motorsport if it ran over them.C YA
I do not know who was, or was not at fault during the race as I am not qualifyed in FIA law . I am however a qualifyed ref in another sport . What is utterly deporable is the incosistancy of the FIA , they seem to give differing punishments for the same offences . Some people are saying they favor Ferrari but whatever is the cause of the different punishments it has to be urgently addressed . The very fact we can all have our own interpritations of the rules is to the detiment of the sport if we can efectively argue about the rules then they need to be simplifyed . Standerdising the officals would also help as this would give the process stability as the event moves from venue to venue .
It is a great responability to offitiate in any sporting event and you have a duty to eveyone involved to endever to get things right which with real time decissions is tough , however in this case they had plenty of time to View the evidence so they have no excuse for inconsistancy . As I said before I am just a fan but it is crazy we are talking about the interpritation of rules when we should be applauding the driving skills of Kimi and Lewis
I have to say that its seems plainly obvious that whenever a dicision is needed in the last few races, it always favours the non brits! This was an amazing race, and Lewis was always within a few seconds of the leader.
Kimi’s immeadiate swerving was also against the rules !! But here we go again the stewards must be ‘red’ colour blind. As most of us say the punishment does not fit the ‘alleged’ crime !!
I admit to maybe being slightly biased as I’m a Hamilton fan. I haven’t seen many completely unbiased assessments on here. The ones that are seem to support Hamilton. I think that Laudas claim that this is the worst decision in F1 history is fairly conclusive from an unbiased perspective.
Shame on the FIA and the stewards. Aren’t the stewards the same at every race now, so its not the track stewards, but the same ones who take it easy on Ferrari?
I don’t like Massa, but I supported the decision by the stewards not to give him a penalty for the pitlane incident in Valencia. But seeing Senna given a penalty for the same thing made me less certain. I geuss the reason for not penalising Massa was that the incident didn’t effect the races outcome. But neither did the Hamilton incident. Kimi crashed after 2 of the best laps I’ve ever seen. Bother drivers were spectacular as they fought to pass traffic, one another, and to simply keep it on the track. Hamilton proved to be the best driver on the day by being clearly ahead even before Kimi crashed out.
Also, if there were concrete walls, Kimi would have taken himself out against Hamilton as Hamilton would have had nowhere to go,
I do understand people mad because what was done with Lewis (right or not it’s not to us do decide) but I think problem is a little bit wider. Bernie and Co. for a years are trying to spice-up the show. in Schumacher era FIA was trying to slow down Ferrari (please wait a moment, I am not looking for excuses for what happened on Sunday), last year we had “spy sagas” (McLaren was punished but there was also issue with Renault), now we have penalty for Lewis. apart from that we have frozen engine development for me as engineer that’s terrible) comeback of the slicks, aero restrictions (starting 2009), qualification format changes at least once a year, and so on, and so on.
looks like attempts to keep the title battle open till the last race of the season to keep us in front of TV. I can understand playing with technical or sporting regulations but all this politics too often is going to far.
Bernie, try to be more subtle as we are not so stupid as you think. please.
also, Yarks604
‘God save F1′
I think its going to take even more than that to save it considering the state its in now. I was looking forward to the rule changes for next year, buts it dawning on me that politics and punishments will remain, and if the cars can overtake more, there’ll be a lot more decisions like this from the stewards.
Didnt Kimi pass Lewis under yellows when Rosberg spun and made a dangerous re-entry onto the track?
Tango,
Yes it appeared he did, strange there’s been little mention of that on the official channels though.
If the officials want to run F1 from a locked room there’s little we can do about it, but please please please be consistent in a. investigations and b.punishments. Otherwise what’s a driver to do?
Hamilton was infront of Kimi at the corner but was forced to cut the chicane due to the aggressive nature of Kimis driving, he was close to hitting massa off at the start, in every other race that someone has cut the corner and gained a place they have allowed the driver who they passed to regain their place and didnt receive any punishment!
I didn’t see the fuss in Massa’s incident in Valencia, but the fact that Senna was penalized for the same thing is evidently very odd. I didn’t see it so I won’t say more than that, but I hope for the stewards sake that they have a damned good reason.
Regarding the Kimi-Hamilton incident, I’m on the “the penalty was right” side. Granted, Hamilton might have let Kimi past and have been 6km slower (which an F1 car would take I’m guessing a few fractions of a second to regain, at lower or medium speeds of course), but why is nobody talking about the benefit Lewis gained by slipstreaming Kimi? That action is plainly worth more than 6km/h and it is because this I think Hamilton gained an unfair advantage; he wasn’t that close to Kimi at the bus stop. Also, if the team knew he could have gotten in trouble, they should have telled him to let Kimi get clearly ahead. I remember Alonso being penalized in Suzuka 05 in a similar manner. I also think Lewis showed a bit of impatience…again.
That said though, F1’s stewards need to be consistent! There’s always going to be animosity when something controversial is decided, but if people can point out other, recent, inconsistent judgements you’re going to be feeding a state of distrust.
PS: By my “he wasn’t that close to Kimi at the bus stop” I meant he wasn’t that close to Kimi before trying to pull out the pass at the bus stop.
great onboard footage,its scary how late Lewis brakes in the bus stop chicane and how close he was to wiping them both out.
http://www.dailymotion.co m/video/x6ovii_wwwformula magcom-hamiltonkimi_sport
Tango
I gave up watching F1 years ago. Yesterday I saw the last three laps and thought that maybe I should start watching it again.
Until the news about the “decision” came. Then I remembered why I stopped watching in the first place.
Racing is really not a difficult thing to understand – loads of people drive around a circuit a certain number of times, the one that does it the fastest, wins. Sounds simple, doesn’t it?
Except in F1 where the race is decided hours (or days) later in a small office. Now, is it just me or is this really wrong? If the whole point is to parade the cars around, why not just say so? Because F1 obviously isn’t about who is the fastest or the best driver.
since yesterday’s debacle my wife and I have taken to calling it WWF1 because it seems like it’s rigged just as much as that wrestling lark. “Iiiin the red corner: Kimi “The Spinner” Raikkonnen…”
You know what is scary? All the pro-Hamiltons inventing all kind of excuses for something which is just a break of the rules. Break the rule and you pay. That’s the game.
Remember, Hamilton has done this before. First time I noticed him pulling a “chicane cut” after overshooting it was in Monza 2007(vs Massa), where he escaped without penalty(how did FIA miss that golden opportunity…??)
Did he actually get a penalty after he crashed Raikonnën in the pit lane? (I don’t remember when) I think the decision isn’t fair, even though I’m not british. I believe that if he didn’t receive any penalty for that then this should make up for it. Anyway, I believe that this is extremely unfair. Maybe if I was a sensationalist journalist I’d say “racism, discrimination, xenophobia, bias, etcetera”. But as I’m not, I say it was just a misunderstanding that shouldn’t stay unpunished, the FIA must annulate the decision, sooner or later, because it isn’t fair.
Check-out the video link on the main TG page. (quick before its taken down)
Lays it all out pretty clearly.
I’m not a huge F1 fan but i do like admiring the raw skill that Lewis Hamilton has on the track.
He has been treated extremely unfairly in this case by the stewards and I think more should be done about keeping the sport as fair as possible
I just don’t see how Massa didn’t get penalized at Valencia for a violation that FIA gave to Bruno…and Hamiliton gets the 25 seconds penalty for not gaining any advantage going off the chicane…
FIA needs the eagle eyed chap who spotted Jeremy crossing the solid line in the Alfa challenge.
Stewards = Ferrari Pet
Stewards is living in the age where he cant see anything correctly,listen clearly, walk correctly and even cant do sex correctly. and he is taking decisions wrongly. long live king hamilton. mclaren hamilton fights back
The worst thing about all of this is that they went ahead with the award giving ceremony pronouncing Hamilton the winner when this incident was being investigated. They should delay it until it is clear who is getting what placing as the podium should be the final say in who won the race. I know that would make it difficult for television, but morally i think thats how it should have been handled.
On a positive note it was fantastic to watch Heidfield come through the final chicane on his wet weather tyres and pass those four cars to get third (well second according to the FIA).
Well i am a fan of Lewis and kimi both and i must say it was a race of fortune. as for me lewis went into a wrong move on the outside in the first place after which he went on the kerbs cut them and than again came infront of kimi later gave away the lead and than regained it by a really aggressive move.Well if stewards really had to analyze something than it should be that lewis should not have risked kimi’s and his own race by taking a wrong move and almost hitting each other. however the decision by steward of such a huge penalty is not justified. max 10-12 seconds penalty would have been good enough to make Lewis realize that the race should be in best of its sipirit not risking anything. With 12 seconds penalty i think Lewis would still be the winner but a concious one next time.
wasn’t massa fined 10,000 euros for the valencia incident? and he wasn’t racing that car it was lapped anyway… i agree with the fia decision of the time penalty… if hamilton handn’t cut the corner..as the cars came around the bend hamilton would not have been right up behind kimi… as u will see in all f1 races… the lead car accelerates buildin a gap between it n the one following! hamilton got what he deserved.
2 Things
1. I don’t understand the comparison to the Massa incedent. Massa’s incedent was a team’s mistake, they gave him the green light to leave the pits. The driver relies on that, it’s not like they have the visibility to see down the pit lane, his job is to just go when he’s told to go. So if anything the team should have been penalised for this.
2. Lewis gained his advantage by his deliberate decision to cut the chicane and not lose pase by breaking and correctly taking the corner, because he knew if he did, he would lose time doing so. He made the same decision earlier in the year at the French grand prix and got away with it that time, as a borderline move.
Review the video footage and you will see Lewis did deliberately stop trying to take the corner correctly and did abruptly turn and cut the chicane. He knew that he could then sit behind Kimi and make a move into the next corner.
So in the end he planned it, once he realised he wasn’t going to make the place on that corner nor make the corner correctly, he selected an alterior tactic, it wasn’t an accident and he was rightly penalised for it.
About Valencia: If Hamilton gets a 10 place penalty for fiddling with his cd changer and somehow managing to crash at the end of the pitlane at walking speed, Massa’s penalty was correct. However! FIA should be more consistent and not punish gp2 drivers harsher for the same.
About Spa: I think they could have chosen to go either way, and in the light of F1’s health I think they should in such a case chose to go with the option that sets the sport in the best light.
However; there was a very similar case with Alonso recently, I belive in 2005, where he overtook Klien, let him back thru and overtook him just the same way Lewis did here. He was then told by Charlie to let Klien back in front again because it was not in the spirit of the rules. Following this precedence the punishment was correct.
And, your glasses will have to be very silver to not see that Lewis gained an advantage here. He put himself in a do or die situation against Kimi who had the superior defensive line, braked very very late and surprise! found himself with nowhere to go but across the runoff area. Happens of course, but he did gain track position advantage.
Don’t worry guys. Hamilton will throw away the championship by driving into a gravel trap.
This is the problem with Hamilton, he’s becoming too much like Schumacher. Whenever he makes a mistake he goes into this childish state of mind where he breaks and bends rules.
Those of you who think Hamilton did not do anything, go download and read the FIA regulations word for word from the FIA website, then go running your mouths about conspiracies.
Also, the idiot who said the FIA is racist is insane, if this was the case, then Ayrton Senna, Nelson Piquet, Fangio and many other racing greats, such as the Rodriguez brothers would never have been allowed to compete fairly in F1.
The fact is, whether you like it or not, Hamilton DID break the rules, and could not go unpunished, I guarantee the same decision would have been made on any other driver, also, if Raikkonen did finish the race, he too would have recieved a penaulty.
Here’s where F1 goes wrong, the fans do not understand the rules enough to understand key decisions in the race, also, ITV’s heavily biased and spiteful coverage of F1 over the years has not helped, this is why they have lost the rights to coverage, their coverage is too biased. Some of the comments Martin Brundle makes about other driver can sometimes be considered as even racist in some cases.
As far as Motorsport coverage goes….. Motorstv FTW!
Lets all be honest here its dead simple
FIA
Ferrari
International
Assitance
Get off the internet mate.
Hey guys check out this petition.http://www.petit iononline.com/mod_perl/si gned.cgi?belgp08. A call is even being made to boycott ferrari sponsors so that our voices can be heard. Shell products, Marlboro cigs whatever.
I’m a Brit and was therefore hoping Hamilton would win, but honestly I wouldn’t have been upset if Raikkonen had won it as up to lap 42 he’d driven a perfect race. I was sorry to see Massa and KR blow up in the last two races and think the pit lane decision was the right one (although Ferrari should have been fined more, and maybe lose some points- I can’t see how you could blame Massa) so I hope I’m reasonably unbiased, and I couldn’t believe it when I heard he’d been demoted.
What people fail to take into account is that Hamilton had gained eight tenths on KR in the first sector alone, and despite a really scrappy lap making him fall back a few times he was still next to KR in the Bus Stop. Wether he cut the chicane or not he would have been in the exact same position at the end of the pit straight. As Lauda said there was no slipstreaming so no advantage there, all he did was outbrake his opponent at the hairpin.
Granted Hamilton’s had a few accidents this year and most of the punishments he’s been handed have been deserved. This time however I think he was found guilty of being a racing driver, and I for one feel the sport I love has been devalued.
As an aside, I’d feel the exact same way if it was a Ferrari that ha been penalised.
Schumacher did the same as Hamilton in going across the chicane in 2006 in Hungary when Pedro De La Rosa was trying to pass him, but Schumacher didn’t give the position to De La Rosa and didn’t get a penalty.
http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM
The FIA didn’t happen to see Alonso using the run off area to gain position at the start of the Belgium GP, around the first corner, or when Raikonnen used the run off to gain extra momentum after being passed by Hamilton, allowing him to catch up to Hamilton. Hamilton went of at the same point as Raikonnen but rejoin the track as soon as posible, whereas Raikonnen used the off to gain advantage.
About the chicane incident, Hamilton was ahead and on the racing line going into the corner. Raikonnen was on the inside of Hamilton and went about pushing Hamilton off across the chicane. This is in breach of FIA sporting regulation Artical 16.1:
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Hamilton after being left with the choose of either a collision or using the run off, did the smart thing and choose to use the run off area. Once over the chicane Hamilton then allowed Raikonnen past on the straight. At this point Hamilton was on the left of Raikonnen therefore gaining no advantage from a slipstream as he would have to be behind Raikonnen to gain a slipstream advantage.
Close to the end of the straight entering the braking zone Raikonnen pulls over to the left in an attempt to block Hamilton from passing, Hamilton in the meantime is pulling to the right of Raikonnen in order to try and get on the inside. Both Raikonnen and Hamilton did this at the sametime, with Hamilton directly behind Raikonnen for a fraction of a second as they crossed over. This would not have been long enough for Hamilton to gain any slipstream advantage.
Hamilton then went about paassing Raikonnen by out braking him, which worked. Any advantage gained in cutting the chicane was negated when Hamilton let Raikonnen through.
Those who say if this was Monaco or Valencia Hamilton would have crash you would be right, that is why nobody tries to overtake at Monaco or Valencia, which is completly dull to watch (unless it rains i.e. Monaco).
The FIA talk about improving overtaking, yet they punish those who attempt to do so. And then they hand the win to someone who started third, couldn’t keep up with front runner and only gained a position due to someone crashing. This isn’t racing, this politics, and not very good politics at that.
People still don’t realise that it was’nt the FIA who made the decision…
The FIA choose the stewards, so they are therefore the responsiblity of the FIA.
Forgot to mention, according to the official FIA letter from the stewards, the offence commited by Hamilton in breaching Article 30.3(a) of the 2008 FIA FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS and Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2(g) of the INTERNATIONAL SPORTING CODE, nowhere refer to taking an advantage by going of track in any way.
Article 30.3(a) of the 2008 FIA FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS clearly states:
“During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe the provisions of the Code relating to driving behaviour on circuits.”
Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2(g) of the INTERNATIONAL SPORTING CODE states:
“The race track alone shall be used by the drivers during the race.” (this is the section from the CODE OF DRIVING CONDUCT ON CIRCUITS an refered to in Article 30.3(a) of the 2008 FIA FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS)
So according to the FIA regulation he is accutually guilty of breaching the regulations he is accused of by going of the track across the chicane.
But watching the race it is obvious that almost the entire field went of the track a some point during the race, in breach of this ludicrous regulation, yet were not penalised as Hamilton was.
Also why is a drive through penalty and a stop and go penalty both 25 seconds. I think someone hasn’t done their maths.
Why is it you lot cannot see past Hamilton and Mclaren. It really is sad as you all seem to think that the sun, moon and stars fly from his backside. He is not a saint you know. Funny how you all forgot the incident in the Canadian grand prix were Hamilton hammered into Kimi. I supose the stewards must have disconected his brakes or something!!!!!
Red Barron,
I don’t think we’re saying that at all. He was justifiably punished for that, and when he rear ended Alonso that was a fair cop too. I think this case is entirely different though- and coupled with a miriad of other decisions over the years it’s created a really bad taste in the mouth. People who don’t follow F1 see things like this and come to the conclusion that F1 is about as much a sport as WWE wrestling.
Personally I’d love to see Massa win the championship, but if he wins it by a margin of less than 6 points this year he’s going to spend the rest of his life defending his right to hold it. And that does noone any good.
You forget Raikonnen took down his own fuel man, obviously unsafe yet nothing came of it.
And the comment about “sun, moon and stars fly from his backside” could also be said of Ferrari fans.
It is interesting the pro Ferrari people who say it was an advantage because he cut the chicane well all i can say is well spotted do you know anything else about F1. Any overtaking in a chicane requires both drivers to give a little to avoid an accident. Cutting corners in chicanes to avoid accidents is normal and quite common in tracks with these corners like Monza. Lewis backed off and so i ask the pro Ferrari when is Hamilton allowed to re attack. Funny we are going to Monza next which oops has a long fast start stright with a chicane at the end. So what are the drivers expected to do now when on the start 20 cars dive in their. It is quite common for cars to get it wrong and cut the corner after they give back the positions when can they start racing again as this is now unclear.
race control told Mclaren it was ok during the race so why the issue after. 2006 mass damper and Monza farce, 2007 Mclaren unfairly found guilty but Renault aren’t of spying, French penalty was a little harsh in 2008, Valencia no time or point penalty for Massa but a similar incident in GP2 was apparently punished and now we have spa.
The fact that Autosport revealed, about Race Control telling the Mclaren team that the move was OK during the race, makes me think again that the main problem here is steward consistency! Make a choice once and stick to it! And understand that such a choice sets a precedent. They need to keep the burocracy down; If they wish to inspire credibility they need a system that guarantees this!
That said, it won’t be the end of F1; It is not the first time a victory will be controversial, nor the last. Knee-jerk reactions from dumb fans who post on the internet won’t solve anything either!
I Think its time to take F1 back to basics, bring back a left footed clutch, with a real stick shift change, Real slicks, less electronics, and bring back real driver ability, real overtaking, out braking, real down shifting, might make it a bit more dangorous, but much more watchable !!!! Also let see lewis win the championship !!!!!!
Hi all
I am just a normal bloke sat on his sofa watching a F1….RACE!! & probably one of the best drivers of our time meaning Lewis Hamilton of cause!!
Hamilton made what i think was a legitimate move to avoid a collision wile being pushed of the track & it just happened too be on a chicane
It was one of the most thrilling endings of recent times in F1 & am shocked & disappointed at the judges decision on taking Hamilton’s win off him & moving him into third place
I fully understand that rules need too be in place for fairness & safety but….
Lets not forget people…..
It is called F1 RACING
HAMILTON WAS ROBED!!!
Stone throwin is great, everyone an expert, ferrari this mclaren that, big thing for me is that everyone should be treated the same, otherwise you loose credibility. Me i’ve lost faith seen so many wrongs in this sport. Vote with your finger TURN IT OFF.
oh my god are u all serious hamilton came in 2 quick and had 2 cut the chicane if he went round the chicane properly after that late brakeing he wud have lost at least a second and dont try 2 deny it its true he shud have waited and tried it again later on in the race and none of this wud have happened and seriously lettin kimi past (just) and then gettin rite on the power again doesnt count as letting him by
all you hamilton supporters are the the same he is perfect and thats it and as for saying he is like schumacher and he didnt get penilased thats bullshit i remember a certain race where schumacher swerved all over the road 2 stop jakes from passing and the consiquences of that were the fia changing the rules so he cudnt do it again!!!!!