We can argue all day about the rights and wrongs of what Lewis did but for the record, I’m with the majority in thinking he’s been shafted – again. How can he have gained unfair momentum when he clearly lifted, let Kimi past and tucked in behind him before re-passing at the next corner?
The law of physics says that for Kimi to have passed he must have had more momentum at that point, end of story. Except that there is more than one voice in the TG office that reckons he should have backed off even more.
Obviously they are wrong – Lewis was miles faster than Kimi at that point and would have been up his chuff into La Source anyway. And if you want to talk about gaining unfair momentum by going off the track, did anyone else clock just how much grip, and therefore speed, Kimi picked up on the following lap when he himself ran off the circuit and took to the run off area? That mistake allowed him to close right back onto Lewis’ tail and that to me very clearly was an advantage.
I guess we can, and probably will, argue about this for months to come. The fact of the matter is that it made no difference to the race result – Kimi was busy screwing up all on his own on those last few laps anyway – and for the lacklustre Massa and Heidfeld to go down in the history books as finishing in P1 and P2 is just plain wrong.
But all of this is symbolic of a much more important issue that faces F1. My six year old lad is at the same age now as I was when I first became obsessed with F1 and the sport needs him and his like.
Having endured a monumentally dull race at Valencia he actually became quite animated during the closing stages of Spa but this morning he went to school bloody furious at the steward’s decision.
I don’t think he’ll bother watching Monza. You see, regardless of whether the masses are right about that duff decision, the general consensus is that F1 isn’t ruled fairly. Folk believe that there is one rule for Ferrari, one rule for the others and another rule altogether for McLaren.
And for as long as that’s the case they have a problem. I’m not sure I can be bothered investing two hours every other Sunday watching a sport that is largely processional if I can’t be certain that at least the result will be a fair one.
Most of the people like formula1 because of ferrari. why cant it be another manufacturer! at least for once! its awkward
Absolutley spot on, I got a text last night from my brother, that conatained a lot of words with stars rather than letters.
Quite simply, so far this season, Ferrari have risked the fan’s health by driving around with a large chunk of metal flapping around; no black and orange flag, and risked their competitor’s health by letting a car go into the path of another IN THE PITS; got a a slap on the wrist and 20 pence fine.
Also on that occasion, I believe the general idea was that the Fezza’s got a fine so as “not to ruin the spectacle” so why this time?
Personallly I think the spectacle is becoming tescicles…..
Look what Niki Lauda, (WHO USED TO BE FOR FERRARI) said to stewards and the FIA!
Austrian Lauda said: “This is the worst judgment in the history of F1. The most perverted judgment I have ever seen. It’s absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this.”
All of them – the organizers, th regulators, the teams and the drivers – have had more money than sense for more time than makes sense and they have turned F1 from something I used to be glued to, into something I now fall asleep to. I agree with the original post: it’s no longer an event I’m prepared to give two hours of my Sundays to either. I don’t plan to watch any more grands prix and I’m deleting all my F1 links from my browser.
First, I’ll agree that the penalty Hamilton got was a weird. But, I think it is extremely unfair to paint this as a proof that FIA is “against” Lewis Hamilton. Those who have a bit of memory will remember all the situations Halmilton got away with (or Alonso was punished) last season (lifted from sandtrap, Hungary, Fuji controversy, weaving at the start etc.) I’d say that yes, FIA is incompetent in its’ ruling, but at least the imcompetence is delivered relatively fairly across the field.
I didn’t watch the Grand Prix, the whole “sport” bores the life out of me to be honest, but after all the flapdoodle and hoo haa in the media I’ve watched a few clips of the incident on youtube, and I think the judgement of the stewards was fair. Had he not cut the corner, Hamilton would have been directly astern of the Ferrari and not alongside as he was. He clearly gained an advantage and should have slowed a lot more instead of nailing the throttle with the Raikkonen no more than a nose in front.
The penalty for Hamilton is appalling. As stated above, what advantage did he truly gain?
Do all these stewards have a nice -free- Ferrari in their garages? They let Ferrari get away with anything, even when it’s hazardous. Fancy a piece of exhaust pipe through your visor anybody?
F1 has gone down the drain. The governing body is claerly biased. Is corrupt too strong a word?
I’m not watching Monza next week.
USELESS FIA ARE DUMB AND ITS A GOOD THING THAT THE FIA DON’T RUN TOPGEAR BECAUSE IF THAT HAPPENED THEN A LAP OF TOPGEARS TEST TRACK IN A FERRARI WOULD BE 5(FERRARI SHOUTS OF THE LINE) 4, 3, 2, 1(FERRARI ALREADY AT FIRST CORNER), GO! SECOND CORNER TOWARD THE TIRE WALL TURN LEFT (DON’T BOTHER WITH THE HAMMERHEAD AND THAT PART OF THE TRACK IN A FERRARI) AT THE SECOND TO LAST CORNER AND STOP THE CLOCK DON’T BOTHER WITH THE LAST CORNER AND THEN TAKE 5 SECONDS OF THE TIME. THATS WHAT THEY’RE DOING WITH F1 AND LEWIS STILL WINS SO THEY SEARCH THE REPLAY’S FOR SOME EXCUSE TO HAND THE LEAD TO A FERRARI
C’mon Brits, you’re always complaining about something… Moss, Mansell, Hill, Button, Hamilton…they were all robbed, and miles better then anybody else… wrong again.
Hamilton made an over-optimistic overtake move anyway.
Bus Stop pass from the outside line? Maybe Batman could pull it off, but Lewis? Definitely not!
It was Kimi’s race anyway. Brits can’t always win, you know…
BTW, Massa sucks…BIG TIME!
Im sorry now but can we all just take a step back from this lewis hamilton bias and look at things from a nuetral point of view. If hamilton was going to back oof, why didnt he back off going into the chicane instead on the straight, ill tell you why, because if he had he would have not got the run into the first bend to make the manouvere he did. Hence staying behinf him, are ye all so blinded by englands need for a champion at some world class sport that ye are willing to overlook facts now. Shafted, ha, dont make me laugh. IDIOTS
Finally for the first time i was on the edge of my seat watching the F1, and now FIA’s incompetent steward managed to ruin it. It reaaly makes me think who is machining the F1, who are the powers behind it… clearly not the engineers and drivers.
One thing is clear though, the A1 GP will gain ever so more fans by these circus acts.
I sure hope, but probably in vain, that the appeal by the mc laren team has any result and that the FIA once wil be cleared of the pocket filling fat arses that reside it it now.
Im going to watch the GP next week. i want to see lewis win by 4 laps having never come closer to a competitor than 4 car lengths, yet still be stripped of his 1st because of technical issues with his underpant buttons. then when my blood boils i can heat the house and save on my gas bill. I never realised F1 was that green.
If you reverse the cars, and it was kimi who “had gained an advantage”, nothing would have happened, and if it was then Hamilton who picked up more speed and grip on run off area to close the gap, alot, im willing to bet a small fortune that hamilton would have had a penalty imposed on him that meant he couldnt use a car in monza, the FIA are on thier arse, and ruining F1. How can you tell someone to watch and hour and half of great racing, to turn around and go, opps sorry guys we love ferrari. Makes me furious. I just hope Hamilton can win against the wishes of the FIA to prove how good he really is.
That’s why I don’t bother watching F1 any more. The championship is being decided by a few suits in the ivory F1 tower. It stinks!!!!!
Adam may I suggest you tell your son to start watching Moto GP!! Get a tape of this years laguna seca round & watch a genius at work.He’ll soon be converted and won’t have to worry about races being ruined by politics.
Yoshi (46)
Yoshi
I’d suggest for Monza that hamilton radio the pit, the FIA & Ferrari (same thing now aren’t they?) to ask permission to over take should he come up behind a Ferrari. And just to be absolutely sure it’s safe to pass he should also wait a bit – like maybe until the end of the season!!
Used to be a Ferrari supporter – one pair of Ferrari trainers(hardly worn due to shame) going on Ebay shortly!
I love Ferrari, however this is a perfect example about how the FIA is interfering with matters on the track, and as always they have got it wrong. This interference is killing the sport. I really hope Massa wins the title, but not like this. Hamilton was robbed blind of a genuine victory which he deserved! I think F1 misses the like of Schumacher who was able to put in blindingly quick lap times and pass cars on the track, but Hamilton’s move on Kim was fine! Let’s decide the championship on the track!
Lewis Will Win Monza next week, Massa isnt good enough, he’ll bottle it.
A petition is in place, http://www.petitiononline .com/belgp08/petition.htm l as of now 10,674 and rising by a few hundred a hour
As you can see from my name I’m a Ferrari follower and usually accept the decisions made by stewards towards Ferrari as you’d expect, but this is a completly obscure call from the stewards and Hamilton should be handed back the win.
As soon as the black clouds came over I knew Kimi would have some trouble, but to give a 25 second penalty to Hamilton after Kimi forcing him from the track is ridiculous. Surely even the Ferrari team can see this is a bad decision.
I agree with Lauda “This is the worst judgment in the history of F1.”
come on brits and Hamiltonites, we have to watch Monza to support our man! If he cant do it, no-one can! (not Button at least)
wow you people need to understand that whether lewis WOULD have or COULD have passed kimi, at that point he passed him ONLY because he went off track.
And he didn t let him get even a whole car ahead before accelerating again. Which is not of much importance since he would have passed anyway, but it just underlines how immature lewis still is.
Let alone how he messed up in the press conference, claiming that he was in front before the corner and Kimi cut him off and forced him off track. In which case, why did he let Kimi pass him again anyway??
Lewis is gonna win the championship this year and some discipline will do more good to him than the points of this victory(although i STRONGLY disagree with changing a race’s outcome after it’s finished)
The worst judgement in the history of F1? well, seems like Lauda forgot Senna and Prost in Suzuka in 1990… and the fact that McLaren wasn t expelled from the championship last year or for the years to come
I will never buy another Ferrari product in my life… Not sneakers, not jackets and not stationary. Should some good fortune financialy befall me, I will buy Porsche.
After their shamefully ‘running to the stewards and crying like little girls’, I want no association with the brand.
By the wat, I’m not British.
EX FERRARI FAN!!!
Hmmm…
The rce was not bad at all but Kimi was on the first place during nearly the whole GP…
What was interresting wasn’t at “the front” but just behind…
Bourdais deserved the 3rd place. He did such an amazing job with the car he had…
Heidfeld’s gamble paid cash and that was great to see him in front of Robert…
The last 3 laps were “messy”… As Bourdais said on the Belgian TV saturday : “If it rains, the positions will be only given by “luck”" and he was right !
About Lewis… Well, we will argue a lot… Bas Leinders (ex Minardi diver) thought that Lewis’s overtaking wasn’t really fair… He said that Lewis knew that the chican was coming so last push the breaks just a bit to late allowing him to “cut” the corner…
Now, is it true or false ? fair or not ? We will argue for ages…
What I think is that : the race happens on a track…
On that corner it wasn’t grass or gravel… but it wasn’t really “on the track”…
If it had been gravel or grass as it schould be, Lewis’s race was over…
I don’t expect you to understand, Lewis’s Brit, so is McLaren, that’s normal for you to say it was unfair to give him the 3rd place instead of the 1st…
I am not saying that you are bad losers, but it’s borring to ear every 2 weeks that the FIA is against Lewis and McLaren…
“Poor Lewis, he didn’t know McLaren had Ferrari’s secret files”
“Poor Lewis, it isn’t fair… bla bla bla”
Borring borring borring …
If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. Lewis maintained or gained an advantage, his competitive edge (and lack of willingness to back off properly) clouded his inexperienced judgement. He should of given up and resumed behind Kimi. The rules are clear and they were clearly broken. Punishment given to Lewis matches those given to other rule breakers.
Lucky we have such good Stewards in this sport who cut through the shameful British attitude and delivered an appropriate verdict and punishment.
I agree, the Brits do tend to complain when things don’t go their way. Look at the McLaren Ferrari spying scandal? McLaren should not have even been allowed to race this season as it is the worst offence and so on.
However this is an open and shut case. I don’t like Hamilton’s Mr. nice guy approach but he is a great racer! This was a mistake and will damage F1 again!
By the way, Ferrari did not go running to the FIA F1 fan, get your facts right.
I totally agree with Pierre-Yves. I understand that Brits are defending their “hero”, but how can anybody say that his cutting of the corner wasn’t an advantatge? He is too impatient and lacking of experience..
(I’m sorry for my English)
As a Neutral party to this (as i’m German, and a Vettel and BMW supporter) I’m still outraged by the decisions the stewards made.
To Pierre-Yves I say this. Yes Raikkonen was in front for most of the race. But the stats clearly showed that when it mattered Hamilton was faster. and after all Raikkonen crashed into the barriers anyway. I think the FIA forgot that Raikkonen passed Hamilton again after a few corners after the original incident in question. and then completely messed his own race up. Hamilton would have finished first no matter whether that last corner incident would have occured. So why does the politics of F1 have to ruin a perfectly fair result AGAIN!?
It’s a fair penalty. The equivalent of a stop and go and as they have to be served within 5 laps (I think) then Hamilton could have easily taken the penalty the last time around the track handing himself the win (as he would cross the start line before reaching his pitbox). Therefore it wouldn’t have actually been a penalty to him. Oh and incase anyone says different, Schumacher has done this before and recieved no punishment, case rested.
Simon. you have to remember that in a very similar incident a few years ago when Schumacher was racing DeLaRosa (who was in a mclaren) Schumacher didn’t get a penalty for his corner cutting antics.
and he was in a Ferrari. coincedence?
Hadidi. How did he gain advantage of being 6mph slower across the finish line and letting Raikkonen back through to take the lead? very ignorant of you.
i agree. Hami did nothing wrong. He raced his heart out and gave Kimi every chance to stay in front. I have been a fan of Ferrari for a long time and now see the bias. Hami won that race and did it like he always does. He drives like he knows something that all the other F1 drivers don’t, like there is a magic force pushing him around the track. He is fluid!
Shame on the FIA for being turds. Hami was 6K slower when they crossed the line, and Hami still short braked him in a wet corner and made it stick.
Plod, he did resume behind Kimi!
That is the rule.
It does not say wait 10 seconds, wait until after the next corner or give up.
I think the 9 other teams should break off from Formula 1 and just let Ferrari circle around on their own. That’s apparently what they want to see anyway.
FIA = Ferraris’ International Associates.
Lewis HAS been shafted… AGAIN.
Bernie Ecclescake needs to pull his head out of his wallet and do something before F1 becomes a complete joke.
Another typical example of the Ferrari mafia pulling the strings begind the scenes. And they claim they didn’t complain to the FIA bringing about the investigation. LIES, LIES I TELL YOU! If Kimi Raikonnen had done what Lewis Hamilton was forced to do by Kimi, he would have got his wrists slapped and a fine. Hamilton gets a time penalty and a race result stripped. It’s not just biased towards Ferrari, I think it’s racism. This decision by the FIA (F**** In A***) is an insult to the fans, the sport, and everything it stands for!
Hi, i’m from Italy, and i’m a fan of Ferrari.Yesterdy i saw a great battle between two great drivers.For me Lewis made a great move, that’s it.Everybody are looking for some action in F1 races, yesterday i’ve seen that.FIA is full of idiots.Like i said, i’m a Ferrai supporter, well, i’m sorry for what happened.
It seems like the FIA is on a hunt for Mclaren! whatever they do they get penalized!!! and yesterday was no different, one of the Mclaren’s overtook a Ferrari, so in the eyes of the fia that was a crime against humanity and they should be punished!!!! And please tell me something ,what good is it to race if the championship is already decided? I mean ferrari has done a mistake almost 2 times this season
first is in “Monaco” Kimi hitting one of the force India cars and the other incident was in the pit lane , Did they get penalized? or demoted?or maybe fined for abt 100 million US$??….. nah i don’t think so…..
So i ask one simple question ?
Does the F.I.A stand for Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile or Ferrari International Association?.
I am disgusted by this… And by no means am I a Hamilton fan… I want Massa to win but I cant believe that they forced Lewis dont to 3rd, its a disgrace to F1… It was clearly one of the best races ive ever seen in F1 and FIA had to go and ruin it, its as if they dont want people to watch and hate this sport.
I feel sorry for Lewis and wish the FIA wasnt run by such idiots, i think it should be the public to vote… or just let things be, its a war out there and were loving it and FIA comes to ruin it…
damn you FIA:…
Hamilton got an advantage by cuting the chicane so was much closer to Kimi, so got a tow.
Unfair advantage, hence he get’s penalised.
It doesnt matter anyway, he’s still winning the championship..massa’s car will inevitably blow up again, Kimi is not going to be able to repeat last year if Hamilton just stays on the road and drives carefully.
Hamilton has the title in the bag, like he had last year (but it was him who screwed up, a true brit!).
I just wanted to say that outside UK people are not so sympathetic to your beloved Lewis. My opinion is that he should have been punished for what he did. I was very surprised when he got the penalty for real, because several times he got away (especially in 2007) when he clearly should have been penalised. It may make you people happy, but Lewis shouldn’t get away everytime just because he’s british in the british run formula one world.
Massa winning this one is plain wrong on the other side.
Anybody else think that Ron Dennis is the dullest man alive?
Also, Hamilton is such a corporate ninny:
“To pull on another Vodafone McLaren Mercedes rocket red victory T-shirt feels awesome.”
I DONT DELIEVE IT!
The only explaination has to be that F I A stands for “Ferrari Incentivised Ars**oles” This just has to be Mafia based as logic does not prevail. Some of the best closing moments in a race for what a decade??? and the Mafia, sorry the FIA, deicide to punish one of the most exciting drivers the Sport has seen in a generation. If the FIA can not rule without being so outrageously biased / racist (probably both) then the sport deserves to die and talent move to other motor sport.
That was the most exciting race i have seen from f1 they surely Hamilton was trying to avoid a crash…
Just to say to non-British people on this thread:alot of us ‘Brits’ are NOT biased towards Hamilton,in fact,alot of us find all the Hamilton-hype and British media obsession with him really tedious and irritating.Sure,he’s a great driver(but not the best imho)but personally,i’m not a big fan-I don’t like his arrogant attitude-i hope he grows up soon.A little humility wouldn’t go amiss,Lewis.I rate Bourdais,Vettel and Kubica above him…and maybe a few more.
Again all that same thing about FIA and making Hamilton a hero.
OMG. My only point about this is, he could win the race without doing that, that’s why he has been penalized. He was faster he could way to do it in the right place.
As I fair driver he should know that he should stop his car if needed but not take advantage in the corner. That’s why I think he still a kid wanting to win a race at any cost, which for me is not enough to be driving a F1 car.
L Hamilton is fair away to be a proper race driver, he can go fast, he can be dangerous and very unfair sometimes. So please stop complaining about FIA, Ferrari and anything else.
ripsnorter maybe you’re not but how do you rate the article on top of this page. I find it pretty biased.
Lewis has made lyberal use of the rules before too.
Like the start-stop during safety car last year making fetel crash into webber or the same corner cutting he did on monza. I’m pretty sure he could have backed off Rikonen and then pass him later but he preffered to stay alongside him and keep the on the inside for the next corner he was right on the aeorodinamic advantage directly behind the ferrari when he made his move.
i agree with what your are saying and for me the FIA is killing F-1 because the are not loving racing but dollars the letter F is the first letter of FIA & Ferrari look how they treated the pitstop of Massa in Valencia and how they did it with GP 2 in Belguim rules are changed as long your name is Ferrari
immediately at the end of the race, i had thought lewis had won it. but when i first heard of the stewards decision, i too was puzzled.. to begin with.
the explanation is best understood when analyzed scene by scene while closely watching and rewatching those moments under scrutiny by the stewards.
1.
-when kimi and lewis were battling into the final chicane before the home straight, they were side by side going into turn 18.
-kimi is on the inside line and lewis is on the outside line.
-while kimi stays on the racing line, lewis tries to go around the outside of kimi.
-notice that kimi did not actually “push” lewis off the road. lewis simply ran out of it as he does not slow down enough to be able to safely make the final turn 19.
2.
-following this, lewis has no option but to cut the corner to avoid colliding with kimi, which is fair play.
-yes, lewis does slow up to allow kimi to repass him.
-BUT- and this is where the stewards are pinning lewis with the penalty:
-lewis only allows kimi to momentairly pass him before he begins to accelerate again.
-so what’s the problem? -lewis is directly behind kimi’s gearbox.
-and what is wrong about that?
-the advantage gained by lewis from cutting the corner is that he was able to be right behind kimi’s gearbox going into the first corner
-whereas if he had completed turn 19 instead of cutting across it, he would have been much further behind kimi during the acceleration phase out of the last corner (as affectionately termed by martin brundle as the “concertina” or simply “yo-yo” effect).
-THUS- the penalty of a drive through was handed to lewis.
-it can be said that lewis did not let kimi repass in the intention of letting him regain the position.
-rather lewis took advantage of the situation by minimizing the time he had to let kimi to repass and then immediately going on to attack the position.
-a situation that attracts the same penalty is by passing under yellow flags.
-if a faster ‘car A’ overtakes a slower ‘car B’ through a corner under waved yellows then momentarily allows ‘car B’ to repass on the following straight for a fraction of a second before accelerating into the open space ahead to retake the position then ‘car A’ would be investigated and handed a drive through penalty.
-it can be argued on technicality that ‘car A’ allowed ‘car B’ to repass but intentionally it would not have been the case as ‘car A’ took advantage of a situation that he would otherwise not have had.
-so in actuality the view of the stewards is that lewis overtook kimi by taking advantage of a situation that he wouldn’t have had if he’d correctly piloted through the final corner.
-also the penalty is not for lewis cutting the corner, rather it is for not returning the equivalent gap that kimi would have had going down the straight (1-2 car lengths based on the head start kimi would have had to begin accelerating out of the final corner before lewis).
-so in conclusion, the penalty although cruel had reasoning and had lewis given kimi an acceptable “normal” gap after the repass he would have most certainly not received the equivalent of a drive through penalty implemented after the race.
P.S. the advantage of momentum gained by kimi in the run-off area was around the OUTSIDE of the track and is not deemed to be cutting the corner by any means, which is altogether irrelevant as the penalty was not for hamilton cutting the corner and gaining “momentum” advantage.
lewis hamilton gained a positional advantage that allowed him to make the overtake a lot easier than it otherwise would have been.
I want to see more racing like the last few laps of Spa, but it seems the FIA are not of the same opinion. Perhaps they should watch a bit of BTCC, NASCAR, WTCC, V8 Supercars(Australia) to see what constitutes “unfair advantage”.
Hamilton tried to go the long way around Kimi. Every single driver including Lewis would have done the same thing that Kimi did in that situation and close the door. That was never going to work as a passing maneuver, especially fighting for the win on the second last lap. Lewis should have slammed on the brakes and taken the corner instead of fighting Kimi stupidly for the corner. He knew that if he did he would lose about 2 or 3 seconds putting him about 3 or 4 seconds behind on the straight, so instead he cut the corner knowing he would be about 10cm behind Kimi getting the perfect tow. 10cm and ultimately an EASY pass versus being 3 or 4 seconds behind with little chance to win if he yielded and continued around a track is a massive advantage.
To all of you people crying about this, Lewis KNEW Kimi would block him and he COULD have yielded and gone around the corner. But regardless, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE he could have come out of that failed pass and around the corner and be that close to the back of the Ferrari.
About the advantage Kimi got running outside of the track. I clearly remmember that lewis got outside of the track on the same place too just not as wide.
And I don’t think that you can get an advantate on that corner by running wide it’s true that you can reach a higher speed but it’s also true that you have more ground to cover and two curbs to pass trough. I’ve seen a lot of races and a lot of people running out in that particular corner on Spa and all of them lost time compared to the people that stayed on the track.
So why dont they make going offtrack less inviting? I mean, they could make a surface like heavy duty sandpaper. Something grating anyway. Then the tyres would instantly wear out if you went off. No chance of any advantage, no need for these controversial decisions. Simple and elegant: if you ever go off, you need to change tyres.
That’s because Ferrari is the best !
Nikkel,I think there are valid points for both sides of the argument regarding the lastest incident and it will run and run but I also think the above article is bordering on whining:’poor’Mclaren aren’t the victims everyone’s making out to be,yes,maybe the FIA are a little Ferrari-biased this time but Ron Dennis is no angel and has got away with alot over the years.But one thing is for sure,Lewis has always displayed with his driving that he does not know when to back off(even if it means crashing)and this attitude is what started the whole incident at Belgium-imho I think he should have just breaked behind Kimi but the point is,he knew he’d end up in a position where he’d have to cut the chicane,so it was effectively a planned move.That is the point.I’m not saying he deserved such a harsh penalty,i’m just saying he needs to know that he can’t just act like a spoilt brat and has to get his own way.
at z3d:
exactly my point, but much condensed =)
at Tak:
the surfaces around the outside of the pouhon corner (fast sweeping turns 10 and 11) are the same tarmac as the race track itself for the same reasons why gravel traps are being replaced by high grip run off areas, they are for safety reasons. besides those areas are always going to be more dirty that the race track with debris all over the place but stil have significantly more grip for the dirver to have more control in the event of an off track moment rather than bouncing across a gravel trap that doesn’t efficiently reduce the momentum of an f1 car at full speed.
Sorry wrong end !
all i see here in these forum is a bunch crybabies and sore lossers
OK, enough of everybody’s whining about how the Brits are whiners and are just bitching about Hamilton’s getting the shaft from the FIA. I’ve had enough of it. You are whining about how they are whining. Get over it. That being said, I’m from the Midwestern United States and I couldn’t care less about where a driver hails from. I spend two hours watching the race and its coverage every other week. Yesterday morning, I woke up at 6:30 in the morning on my day off to watch this race. The rest of my family woke up at around 7:30 in the morning to my excited whoops and hollers. The last 3 laps of that race at Spa were probably the most entertaining motor sport that I have watched in years. If every F1 race were that interesting, F1 races would be more popular than any other sport on earth. Watching multi-million dollar cars whir around the track, spinning out, passing each other at a frenzied pace, not having any idea who was gonna win, that was an absolutely amazing spectacle. Hamilton was barely holding his car to the road at the end of the race. At least on Speed’s coverage, the announcers were ludicrously excited even after Kimi crashed and Hamilton was trying to conquer Eau Rouge. It was exciting even at the front where there was no battle!!! While Kimi had a brilliant drive all day, and I must say, on those soft compound tires, he was just ridiculously good, Hamilton’s last 3 laps were even better. Had Kimi not crashed, I’m fairly sure that Hamilton would win. In my opinion, he has better car control in general. However, when I logged on to TopGear this morning and saw that the FIA had after the fact removed the stunning victory from Hamilton, I was fairly appalled. While, after thinking the incident over, I can see the basis for which the decision was reached, it seems to me that this race was decided by men who were off the track and were not on the track. Hamilton tried to avoid contact, Kimi rubbed him off, he went across the median, and tucked back behind Kimi. I agree that he should have left a car length or 2 between him and Kimi, but even then, to punish him 2 spots for approximately .2 seconds that he should have slowed is unfair to F1 as a whole. It isn’t even relevant because Kimi crashed out anyways. The stewards made a very poor decision, even if, which I’m not sure they did, they made the right call. This decision impacts the points totals drastically, in both the driver’s and constructors totals. Hamilton, instead of being ahead of Massa by 8 points, is now only ahead by 2. McLaren Mercedes, instead of trailing by single digits to Ferrari, now trails by 12. This decision by the men behind a desk changes an entire season and it makes race fans everywhere wary. If the next race weren’t at Monza next week, I would probably skip watching it. But I have to respect that epic racetrack. I’ll be watching it, but only grudgingly.
There was nothing more Hamilton could’ve done. And now he’s been penalised for being a quick thinker, and re-taking Raikkonen at the next possible opportunity. If the boot was on the other foot, and it was Raikkonen who’d done ‘that manoeuvre’, I’m 99.9% sure a penalty wouldn’t have even been considered.
The events in the last two Grand Prix have convinced me that the FIA have three rule books. One marked ‘Ferrari’, which consists of no text at all, maybe a few squiggles saying “we love Ferrari”. One marked ‘McLaren’. Which stipulates ‘anytime a McLaren is on track we must find a way to punish them’. And then there’s the rule book for the rest of the teams. Which, probably, contains a line somewhere that says ‘leave them alone, unless they interfere with Ferrari’.
Formula 1 has been lacking, in the entertainment department, of late. But, as soon as something exciting does happen a driver will be punished by one of these dullard stewards for ‘committing an offence that breaks rule 311.5.4b’. It makes me sick.
The FIA are ruining F1, with their silly little procedures, their complete transparent bias towards Ferrari, and their three rule books. It’s just a shame that the ‘breakaway’ Formula never came to anything.
the kid just doesnt belive the rules apply on him and he proved it time and again
How about a boycot of Monza?
At least if some of us don’t watch it, the FIA will realise they can’t do as they please when they see the lower ratings?
I’ve signed the petition also.
Please do the same
http://www.petitiononline .com/belgp08/petition.htm l
http://www.PetitionOnline .com/belgp08/petition.htm l
Hey guys, is there anything we can do to let the FIA suffer? Can someone hack their website or something and post the real facts and expose them for the Ferrari lap dogs that they really are? I’m not dissing this forum, but this doesn’t help us educate the FIA that they are ruining the sport!
Seems to me as if, and this is not supposed to affend anyone and just a suggestion, that the FIA are maybe a bit racist and they class Formula one as upper-class? its like they dont want a non-white person to win the race because it will no longer be seen as an upper-class sport the wealthy. this is just a suggestion and im not trying to offend anyone. anyone else share this opinion?
Most of the people here are biased towards hamilton, even the OP. The FIA does not have a different set of rules for every team. How many times has Kovaleinen been penalized? The problem is, Hamilton only has about a year and a half of experience in an F1 car so he’s bound to make mistakes. The thing is, since he’s a good driver, people make a big hoopla when he makes a mistake and is punished for it. Nobody would care if Sutil was given a 25 second penalty. Nobody cared when Kovaleinen bumped webber in this race. But when Hamilton crashed into the back of Raikkonnens car during the Canadian and was given a 10 place penalty, people were furious. When Hamilton cut the corner (instead of breaking like you’re supposed to when your being blocked) and gained the advantage…I think what happened was that when hamilton blocked of by slowing down to the left, he blocked raikkonnen from turning in left to make a smoother turn into the next corner ( you can see him wiggling a bit) and raikkonnen lost alot of speed so hamilton just shot past him to the right. But anyway, if I ran the FIA, going through one of the safety run off areas would mean a drive through penalty. Regardless of whether or not it was intentional, there should be any sort of penalty for running-off because otherwise aggressive drivers like hamilton would just keep pushing and pushing knowing that even if he runs off, he would barely lose any time because the run off areas are exactly the same as normal track areas.
trouble is, we can moan all we like but it’s McLaren that need to sort it out. The whole sport is fixed.As soon as Ferrari lose they moan like heck and the stewards pay sympathy. When anyone else does they don’t listen. Someone’s got to go, preferably Ferrari’s funding.
Ripsnorter You say and I quote “But one thing is for sure,Lewis has always displayed with his driving that he does not know when to back off(even if it means crashing)”
So basically that puts lewis on a par with The sports greats, Schumacher and Senna both displayed this trait, and this is what Lewis aspires too. Good on him for being agressive and having a go, I think its something the British have been lacking in, in the sporting arena for too long.
The fact of the matter is that if this incident deserves a time penalty equivalent to a stop go, then so did the Ferrari Pit lane incident in valencia. I really can’t believe that anyone with any sporting integrity at Ferrari will hail this a great decision, Schumacher, Kimi and Massa included. Also I truely believe that if Massa goes on to win this Championship by a margin of anything less than 10 points he will have a nagging feeling that it was not of his own making.
I know people believe that Hamilton is arrogant, they complained that he did not appologies after Canada (he states in a post race interview that he had just come back from personally appologising to Kimi). His biggest issue is that he is ruffling too many feathers by coming into the sport and getting right to the top too quickly Schumacher took 4 year to win a championship and Lewis nearly did it in one. I don’t suppose this will ever change, but I fear the only way Hamilton can show his true skill will be through events such as the ROC and the TOP GEAR F1 drivers Lap board.
For the past three or four years, I haven’t bothered with the F1 because it just turned into 22 cars going round and round in circles for a few hours. I’d only really bother with the highlights, because you’d see all the crashes and interesting bits.
This year however, the whole Hamilton battle has sparked my interest once again, and the amount of times I haven’t been fond of the FIA is soon to become double figures, if not already.
Make it better FIA, or I’m going back to rallying…wait, they do that too.
Alonso was penalised for the same thing at Suzuka 2005, he passed Klien but overshot the chicane, let Klien passed but got back in the slipstream right away and passed him into turn one.
Clearly that was an advantage, just as it was this time.
Hamilton is getting penalised for the simple reason that he is using his heart rather than his head a lot of the time. You have to respect the rules or you will be punished. Simple. Stick to them and you can’t possibly be penalised.
i think this desision was fair, mclaren has been risking there drivers and team plus fans four 2yrs now. SORY BUT IT IS TRUE. and then mcleran is unfair on everyother driver tht has been there longer thn lewis he got the jump staight into a fast car sorry VERY VERY UNFAIR. the desision was RIGHT
Ferrari = italian
Mafia = italian
nuff said ,
Not sure what hold they have over the little
evil toad that is Eccelstone, but it seems a strong one !
I watch all types of motorsport yet look forward to formula one because it is the pinnacle of motorsport, or at least it is supposed to be. After the shambles sfter the race (not during it) it makes me feel i will be much better off watching WTCC or Moto Gp and forgeting the whole controversy surrounding Formula 1. I mean its all the time there is some sort of commotion and frankly its boring me to death.
Mr. P
Don’t forget that Schumacher started in Jordan, Masa in Sauber and Alonso in Minardi. Lewis started in one of the best teams on the grid. What about Mika Salo he won his first race with a Ferrari when Shumacher was injured despite not racing during 1999 season and not having any succes before this goes to show that the car is very important.
As a poll, who here thinks that the McLaren appeal will be overturned?
At least Raikkonen is a proper racing driver. Gets paid more than any other and the night before the race he gets Tontoed on Polish vodka. And have you seen his wife? Good Lord!
for god-sake lewis won and thats it
I have read all these posts with interest, but I think most people are missing the point. I am not a McLaren fan, Hamilton fan, or a Ferrari fan but an F1 fan so I think I am unbiased. For a driver to be penalised it should be because they have inconvenienced someone else’s results, either in qualifying, in the pitlane, or in the race. Was Hamilton guilty of this? No. Kimi crashed anyway without anyone else’s help and Massa was way too far back to take advantage, so who exactly lost out??
top gear rules
q
Same old same old.Ferrari can do no wrong.They got away with a bad pit stop that others were penalised for a week earlier,now this.Something smells in the halls of Formula One…
I think at Monza Mercedes-Benz should demobilize their F1 fleet, the pace car the medical car and the not inconsiderable fleet of ‘official’ vehicles I am sure Ferrari or uncle Luca will find a more suitable red car to lead the parade around
Nikkel, Lewis Started in a McLaren because he Idolised Senna, and when he was very young Contacted McLaren and has been contracted to them for years, He would not be in the car if they didn’t think he was up to it, Gary Paffet and Pedro De La Rosa are not racing for McLaren this year and both are on their book. If Hamilton had been a Mansell fan he would be battling in a Williams right now much like Rosberg and he would be doing a great job of it. Rosberg has look at his first GP fastest lap, OK he wouldn’t be leading a championship but thats not the point Hamilton nailed his Colours to the McLaren mast many years before his F1 debut, He could be driving for the team when they where hopeless with Pegeuot power. But no he is with them as a winning team, so we can only judge his performance against his team mates. well he certainly managed to hold his own against 2 times world champion Alonso. Nobody not even the most die hard Lewis fan expected that. Now he dominates his team mate, a past winner of the Race of Champions, beating the Mighty schumacher on the way. So why should he not deserve his place. The Anti Lewis sentiment is too strong. If that manover had been carried out by any other driver on Hamilton I still would not have seen any issue with it as it was honest to goodness wheel to wheel racing if it had happend in the midfield between two other drivers we’d have all hailed the excellent specticle and been appalled if the same FIA penalty was enacted. It is just macking a farce of the whole show. By the way I was a big Salo fan when he was a Lotus and later Tyrrel driver, the guy was a legend to me, I still remember the Awe I felt as I watched him drive an F1 car with a flappy paddle gearbox, with one side of his body paralysed due to being in his team mates seat!
If Kimmi had finished the race and thats a BIG if from the way he was driving at the end then the judgement would have been fair. but to take vital points away and give them to thoes that were not wronged is biased.
Whether Lewis’ pass was fair, or over optimisitc is irrelevent here – the issue is that the FIA handed out a penalty to a McLaren driver, but in the last race, they chose to ignore a breach of the rules for a Ferrari driver….
It is a question of fair and balanced application of the rules….
I for one do not have any confidence that the FIA are applying the rules fairly. And that is a bigger issue than if Kimi / Lewis / Massa gained an advvantage.
Regardless of what happened on the track & whose fault it was, one has to admit that it was one of the best races we have had in a long time. As for the outcome, I completely agree with Pierre-Yves. & there’s simply no point in arguing about it as the Brits will defend their hero to death (regardless of logic).
How can the FIA get away with being so blatantly bias in all decisions, not just F1. If there`s ever a link to France or Italy, who`s going to win? I wonder how much it cost Ferrari to have a seat so far up the FIA`s @rse. Disgusting decisions.
First off, let me present my usual biases;
I hate Ferrari, but like Kimi. I love McLaren, but dislike Lewis Hamilton. Given the conflicts, I just cheer for Robert Kubica.
In any case, I’m in total agreement that the FIA favours Ferrari; this is one of the primary reasons I hate the red cars and the many unethical situations they’ve been involved in. I do, however, believe that Lewis needed to be penalised.
The whole of England is crying foul over their golden boy being docked the win, but the fact of the matter is, he made another rookie mistake. He clearly out-braked himself and would have had to cut Kimi off badly, even if Kimi hadn’t tried to match him. Either way, he would have had to stay behind on the track or would have caused an accident. Instead, he just intentionally overcooked the corner, cut the chicane, and subsequently failed to leave enough space for Kimi.
I won’t go so far as to say Kimi deserved the win, he binned the car of his own accord and therefore got the DNF. Lewis did not deserve the win either. Just because a pass was exciting doesn’t make it fair. In my opinion, Lewis thinks he can walk on water and as a result often over-extends his abilities.
z3d said it right. Of course Hamilton got advantage of going strait on the corner and then letting Kimi pas and then coming just few cm’s behind him was just stupid of him. Also Kimi should have known that Hamilton will get a penalty and just went on and drive to the finish.
F1.O8: my point exactly (but put much more eloquently than me!).Also,i’m not a Lewis-hater,I just think it’s pointless at this stage of his career to compare him to Senna,Schumacher et al when he’s still got alot of growing-up to do,which includes realising that (unlike the afore-mentioned legends)he’s not (quite) as good as he likes to think he is.
Ferrari did not complain to the stewards you dolts. Hamilton did gain an unfair advantage plain and simple and was penalized. He is an amazing driver and will be for years to come. However, he is still learning and this is part of the process. I do agree however that instead of being penalized 25 seconds he should have been penalized 10 grid places. But even then, people would still complain that the FIA is in Ferrari’s back pocket. Maybe if Ron Dennis didn’t try to cheat every chance he gets the FIA would be more sympathetic to his drivers.
Precisely. I’ll put it in an analogy F1 fans will understand:
Lewis isn’t yet one of the greats despite the fact that he thinks so, period. Think back to the famous pass at this very track that Mika Hakkinen pulled on Schumi, going three wide around Ricardo Zonta. If Lewis were Mika, he’d have slammed right into the back of Schumacher on the prior lap when the Ferrari made the dangerous block, I’m convinced of it.
Lewis doesn’t THINK, he just acts; often irrationally. I’d say it’s due to his arrogance, but on this one point I may just be biased. The greatest drivers in history were not only daring, but strategic at the same time. Thus far, Lewis has had the balls but not the brains.
He’s not Senna yet.
the fact that this is such a contrvershal matter suggests that it was very close. so the fia shouldnt take away a victory on something too close to call otherwise the amount of little illegal or unfair things in a race will mean you will have to wait till 1 hour after the race to get “the final result” this is pathetic on behalf of the fia they just want an important decision to make thats all.
Although I am a Ferrari fan (somewhat) i find this penalty unacceptable. Hamilton may have had an advantage but not so serious as to impose a 25s penalty, perhaps a slap in the wrist (monetary penalty). Furthermore it discourages battles to happen with all those penalties etc etc.
Oh i found out what F.I.A. really stands for… Ferrari International Assosiation
Chris
Some good points Inconvenient Truth. But can you explain why Kimi didn’t recieve a penalty for running wide at Pouhon and not rejoining the track immediately like Lewis? We all saw he gained an advantage there by virtue of the dirty and grippy surface. Inconsistency again from the FIA.
Anyway, Monza. How much are we looking forward to that race, traditionally a highlight of the calendar? Ferrari trying to deliver in front of their public and McLaren trying to stuff it to them. But consider this. Monza has 3 chicanes following high speed sections, 2 of which are braking from around 200mph. How many drivers are going to be brave enough to outbrake and risk running through the escape area? And will the FIA punish them? Can’t wait to find out but still brassed off with F1.
If Lewis hadnt cut the chicane he would have probably hit kimi, which could have landed him with the same penalty as Heiki, so surely it was good driving for him to not take the corner and avoid an accident then let kimi back through.
p.s max mosely is a dirty little pervert
lewis hamilton is the only posibility england returns i understand that but please…… he will never be senna there will never be a senna never again …. and the punishment was well place he cant do that, he is a great driver but he isnt very clever
To me F1 is corrupt when ever Lewis is a few points clear they cut him back. If that was a Ferrari the they would have gone on to take the win. Max Mosley has a big influence in F1 and in the past he has clearly made it clear the him and Ron Denis doesn’t get on. Now isn’t that a coincidence that only last week Massa go a tine penalty of £5000. And just a week later Mclaren get shafted of yet another result. I think its time Mosley stopped the choreography in F1 and let the race develop on its own.
lol people turning against Ferrari, even though they did not appeal Hamiltons move, it was down to the stewards.
Massa said cutting the chicane if often discussed in driver briefings, and made the point if Hamilton had taken the proper route around the corner, rather than cutting it, he would not have been in a position to pass Raikkonen. And I agree with him.
you just dont stop crying do you?
i just almost feel sorry for you
naaaaaaaaaa
To change the result was just wrong!! Lewis won fairly on the road. I’m sick of watching a sport in which Ferrari is given an unfair advantage at every opportunity (and I am a Ferrari fan). What happened to basic human fairness and competition? Will someone please deliver us from these people by forming another racing series.
Juansrich
I think lewis did gain a slight advantage.
He cut the corner, and fair enough he dropped back, but only slightly.
He had a lot of momentum from the last corner but he should have dropped back a lot more.
He should just accept the punishment.
Rules are rules, but 25 seconds is a bit harsh!
He didnt gain 25 seconds by cutting the corner.
Anyway this argument is goin to go on for months!!!!!!!!!
Unless Hamilton wins.
Look how many penalties the stewards have given hamilton this year
March 22, Malaysian Grand Prix
Hamilton and team-mate Heikki Kovalainen were summoned by stewards after complaints made by Renault’s Fernando Alonso and BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld that they were impeded whilst on a flying lap during qualifying.
Verdict: Stewards hand both drivers five-place grid penalties, with Hamilton finishing fifth after starting ninth.
June 8, Canadian Grand Prix
During the race, Hamilton crashes into the back of Kimi Raikkonen in the pit lane at Montreal after the Finn had stopped for a red light. Both drivers are forced to retire.
Verdict: Hamilton receives a 10-place grid penalty for the subsequent grand prix in France, described as “severe” by McLaren F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh.
June 22, French Grand Prix
Due to the penalty from Canada, Hamilton starts from 13th on the grid at Magny-Cours. In his haste to make up ground at the start, he is adjudged to have cut a corner on lap one, gaining a place on Sebastien Vettel, although TV replays prove inconclusive.
Verdict: Stewards quickly impose a drive-through penalty, which halts Hamilton’s charge and he can only finish 10th.
August 21, European Grand Prix
Hamilton arrives three minutes late for the official FIA press conference to preview the race in Valencia.
Verdict: Fined 5,000 euros (£4,000).
September 7, Belgian Grand Prix
Dicing with Raikkonen for the lead at the end of lap 42 of the 44-lap race, Hamilton attempts to go around the outside at the Bus Stop Chicane, but is forced onto a run-off area. Although he gains the lead momentarily, he soon hands it back to the reigning world champion before legitimately passing him at the following hairpin.
Verdict: Charged with cutting a corner and gaining an advantage, Hamilton is handed a retrospective 25-second drive-through penalty which sees him demoted from race winner to third.
i am shore they will miss you
and soon go bankrub
backsraber
McLarenRocks, all those penalties you have listed were perfectly legitimate, and Lewis deserved them all. It is the same for anyone else, he just puts himself in these positions.
Stop blaming Ferrari, it has nothing to do with them. During and after the race, none of them went looking for Hamilton to be demoted. Fact, it was Hamiltons win. I was begining to get very tired of the race positions being decided by pit stop stratagies and finally we get a great race battle and overtaking manover and what do the FIA do? Spoil it for all us genuine F1 fans.
What to do then?
How can we, the supporters of formula one do to save our sport? Ideas welcome!
Is it because hes black?
Why does everyone hate Massa???
I mean sure, he ain’t the best, but it’s not like he wanted the win from Hamilton, he even said that Raikkonen and Hamilton were better than him this weekend……….
Several people seem to advocate never buying anything from Ferrari again. That’s unlikely to deprive them of much revenue though. What instead you need to consider is that Ferrari is owned by Fiat, if no one bought Fiats anymore, that would hit them MUCH harder. Not just that but you’d get a better car.
Alfa Romeo is also owned by Fiat so you shouldn’t buy one of those either.
In terms of Hamilton having benefitted from what he did. No, if anything he lost to Raikonnen through the Bus Stop as he had to then let off afterwards, crossing the line at 6Km/h less. That’s going to be getting on for a 5% margin at that point. Do you seriously think that if Lewis had kept behind Raikonnen entering Bus Stop that he wouldn’t be right up behind the Ferrari on the next stright? I doubt many people here have a degree in Physics but I’m telling you that conservation of momentum does not work like that.
In terms of Raikonnen having run off at Pouhon, there was another time a similar thing happened. At La Source when Lewis span after 1 lap, in the background of the camera you see Kimi swinging way off on to the tarmac apron to avoid Lewis, yet this also allowed him to build up speed earlier having a higher exit speed which is why he then took Lewis a few hundred metres later. No one said anything about that at the time. If what Lewis got penalised for needed a penalty, this also did and if it had, the later controversy would not have happened as Kimi would have had a stop go and would have been down at the back of the field, Lewis would have then led to the finish.
its cuz hes black! bet he wudnt have got that penalty if there were some black stewards!!!!
I still think Lewis’ punishment wasn’t that unpredicted and surprising. When I saw the move, it felt wrong and I thought something would be done, but nothing showed on TV like:”Incident involving cars…” But it didn’t. THAT is wrong, after the podium, lewis on first place and Massa 8 points behind, I was thinking about Monza already “8 points isn’t that much” Then I saw on TV that Lewis got punished…uh-oh, that’s gonna be very bad.
What I think is wrong is that Lewis took Kimi’s position, gave it back and took it again before ONE CORNER. For his lack of patience and lack of feeling, like “I’ll let him stay in front for one corner then I’ll ran him over, he’s slower than me.” Why didn’t he do that?! If he knows he’s being marked by FIA why doesn’t he avoid such situations with a little bit of patience?! He would’ve been behind Kimi after what? Half a mile? Then overtake him, now FIA doesn’t have any argument against him. I’m NOT a Ferrari fan. I support Massa, and I’m brazilian.
I won’t say I think wrong fans support Lewis, because no one can’t blame Lewis for Kimi being slower to enter the corner, because Kimi was like a turttle to enter that corner, maybe he was in shock, who knows.
Another thing I think is wrong is that all of the sudden, ppl that posted comments here with disdain to Massa are now saying (other topics) that he’s being supported by FIA…ok let’s remember Ayrton, 1989 Suzuka, He tries to overtake Prost on the inside, Prost LOOKS at him, watch the footage, and throws his Mclaren on Senna, Prost is out and Senna’s Title is taken on the whim of the FIA president at the time; Jean Marie…. He claimed Senna’s move was… what was it? Oh yeah, “Hazardous”. Now THAT’S unfair. Don’t come saying that brazilians are supported by FIA because WE ARE NOT.
What happened to Bruno Senna is also VERY wrong. Why didn’t they gave him a bill?! No one got hurt or break down and He’s also fighting for the championship just like Massa… I believe, yes, that FIA supports only Ferrari, the driver is unimportant, xcept Schumacher, If it was Schumacher instead of Kimi they would have said Lewis was too close when it happened and that he slightly touched him. And disqualify Lewis and give his points to Michael, wich didn’t even finished the race.
Yes. It’s because he’s black.
Are you retarded cfc?
I don’t really care about politics in F1. They don’t sell politics. They sell cold, hard racing. Pedal to metal, carbon fiber flying million dollar racing. I wanna see good races with passing, crazy shit should happen. This baloney that the FIA is pulling makes the average race fan wary. It doesn’t matter how well someone races because the men upstairs make the final decision. Massa in no way deserved that win. Hamilton or Raikonnen deserved it. Raikonnen crashed out. Hamilton wins. That’s how it was on the track. That’s how it should appear in the standings. End of story.
I wish you Hamilton fans would stop moaning and except the desision. Hamilton could easily have carried on and taken the corner behind Kimmi but he chose not to which is plain cheating. I sorely admit that if he had taken the corner he would have passed Kimmi anyway.
And another thing this rubbish about hamilton being black being the reason for this really is SAD!!!
Yeah he would, now he pays for his impatience. That’ll teach him to use his brains instead of the right pedal next time, so to give no argument to any stewards, and if they do find one it’ll be dull and soon rejected. Specially at monza, hope he doesn’t defy the italians to punish him again in Monza by cutting more corners. Every race should be decided on the track, I don’t care about Lewis penalty, xcept that it was off the track and it wasn’t very thoughtful on the stewards. Punish him with 5 places on the grid next race, or 3…. and but why the 25s? Why not 10s? Even if he gained an advantage, it wasn’t much, cuz Kimi, the most interested in Lewis punishment if he had completed the race, was in 1st place when he spun. I don’t feel a little bit sorry about Raikonnen. Ferrari + heavy foot + humid track – traction control = FERRARI WALLSTICKER. Well deserved for him.
web-nemesis said…
its cuz hes black! bet he wudnt have got that penalty if there were some black stewards!!!!
the stewards were a belgian, an indian and a kenyan.
hamilton’s situation is the result of his poor judgement and over-aggression, yet again. yes, i dearly want f1 to be not boring again, but it should be clean. the correct action would have been to back WAY off before mounting another attack on kimi.
had the positions been reversed, i think the offical call would be the same. the popular opinion would be “ferrari got what they deserved!” had any other 2 cars been involved, the popular opinion would be “it’s unfortunate the race was not settled on the track, but who cares about these two anyway.”
what really flies up my ass is hamilton crying about being (legitimately) forced wide, while he has made that his signature move.
sure, the “red car rule” exists, and it is most unfortunate (f1 likely considers ferrai essential to f1’s survival). possibly the most offensive example was the banning of renault’s mass damper a couple years ago. to a lesser degree, we saw it again at valencia. i don’t think that was the case here.
http://www.formula1.com/i nside_f1/rules_and_regula tions/sporting_regulation s/6835/fia.html
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned
one could argue the 25s penalty is less severe than the 10 grid spot penalty.
I agree with Americanracefan, despite being Massa’s fan, I know he didn’t deserved that win, was already thinking about monza, “he’ll close the gap there”, but no, stewards had to spoil the rest of the day by, after the podium, taking Lewis’ win obviously well deserved. He was miles faster than Kimi. I was indeed rooting for Massa, hoping that kimi and lewis hit each other and get thrown out of the track, so Massa wich was very cautious wins ON THE TRACK! Not off it.
Since my earlier rational points seem to be missing…? I’ll just add this for thought:
Would you want to be stuck behind a Ferrari in the wet?
No, neither would I :p
In short, my other point said that it wasn’t a result affecting incident at all, why should the penalty be? Best left until the start of the next race.
As much of an arrogant SOB Hamilton is, it is still unfair. Good race, bad decision.
(and cfc was being sarcastic AmericanRaceFan!)
If you cant complain about the stewards it’s eithier Max Mosely or ferrari. It really is trying hearing the same thing over and over. The British press and fans(I am Scotish) are a disgrace in the way the treat drivers. Before Hamilton came along everybody loved Button and before that it was Coulthard. But then somebody else comes along and these idols are forgotten.
F1Yankee. Did Hamilton really complained about being forced wide? If he did, then he’s really the crybaby that I think he is. He has pushed Massa off the track the race b4 hungary, and Massa didn’t say anything about it. Now Hamilton is crying “bOOhoo, icyfinnman pushed me off the track daddy…” what a whiner…Now I really don’t have any respect left for him, or his driving.
is there another flavor (or “flavour” if you prefer) of the month coming along any time soon? after a year and a half, i’d like to see the press suck off someone else.
Ferrari will get beeeaaaaaaattttccccccchhh hhhh slapped by Mclaren at Monza.They deserve it. Bernie, Maz, youre as corrupt as a paedo’s hard drive.
why should ferrari even be allowed to compete, they can’t even be bothered to hire a bloke to hold a large lolly-pop in the pits. people always wonder how ferrari have always been winning in the past, its simple, BRIBES, either that or the stewards are the tifosi, because as soon as they see a mclaren woosh past a ferrari with ease then it must have come from an illigal manouver, lewis did as it says in the ‘rule book’ and lited of the throttle to let kimi back through after he had cut the corner. its just that kimi was so unbeliveably slow at that point that it gave hammy the easiest of chances at the next bend! and kimi decided he would go and make a track that wasn’t there to get all that momentum, and lewis had pulled back onto the track asapand didn’t floor it round what used to be and should still be a gravel trap, get rid of them sodding run off areas. and for god sakes stop ferrari’s cheating!
Mrcos got it 100% right what a cry baby
http://formula-one.speedt v.com/article/f1-spa-pena lty-wrong-says-hamilton/
“I left him enough room, yet he picked up more pace going into the corner, and drove me as wide as he possibly could,” said Hamilton, referring to the moment before he cut the Bus Stop chicane.
ROFL! I can’t believe this guy! He pushes every1 out as he pleases and now cries about being pushed off…he could’ve used the brakes and we wouldn’t be discusing about his punishment. I get the feeling that hitting the brake wasn’t an option for him rofl.
Honestly Hamilton needs a bit of dignity to face his punishments. Any of them. When Alonso was thrown off by Massa at the first corner at the Spain GP he also cried saying that “he half a car in front of Massa.” Massa said:”I didn’t do anything wrong, I was on the inside and Alonso took his chances on the outside. I’m not going to apologyze.” What was Massa supposed to do? Give way to his highness sir Alonso? Now Hamilton cries about the exactly same thing. It’s official: Hamilton IS a crybaby. At least Alonso stopped with that attitude of his. Now I see Alonso as a world champion, but Hamilton…not until he behaves like a real racer.
how many more times are mclaren going to get shafted by the once highly respected FIA .its about time there was a governing body to oversee this governing body. what was a great race and original result was marred by and ruined by the FIA .these men are racing drivers,it’s what they do, i bet the FIA will put up gatso’s and speed bumps next ,not for ferrari of course they will get prefered treatment of course.i know its sounds i’m on mclarens side,its true i am.and damned proud of it after getting shafted on the constructors trophy last season because of some flimsy case against them and now this latest goof.shame on you FIA.
Kimi taking to the run off on lap 2 is completely different seeing as Lewis was parked facing the wrong way so Kimi had no option, Lewis could have backed off and taken the corner cleanly.
ABBO i like the way you put it ,tell it like it is mate.!
keep in mind, all f1 drivers are princesses. every single one of them. some earn their spot on the grid with talent and effort, some are the sons of trillionaires. always has been, always will be.
F1 Yankee. how can a 25 second penalty be worse than a ten place grid drop?
With a ten place grid drop you can do something to repair the damage imposed on you. With a 25 second penalty you can’t do that.
This is why i said that would the two cars have been swapped and Raikkonen was under investigation he would have gotten something as piddly as a ten place grid drop because he can do something about that (like being a decent racing driver for once? or that too much asked?)
Either way i still believe Ferrari would not have been investigated for that at all would Hamilton have been driving for them. And that is what outrages me the most in this all.
davy n,
they were “shafted” after being found guilty of knowingly and willfully using stolen property, in violation of sporting regs, and the law. they were let off lightly, considering:
a) both drivers were allowed to contend for the drivers’ championship
b) the financial impact to mighty mclaren was minimal
c) in violation of the rules, they are allowed preferred pit location, and the associated real estate for their mclaren-mercedes office building on wheels.
well, I do think hamilton should have given raikonen more of an advantage after going off the track but after he overtook him one of the bmw’s got in the way which made hamilton go off the track and onto the grass which gave raikonen a massive advantage. Then he crash!! so what in anyway did hamilton not giving raikonen a bigger advantage have in anyway anything to do with the outcome of the race if raikonen crashed anyway. Also raikonen gained a huge advantage by running wide in a corner and caught up with Hamilton.
Another thought.
Raikkonen was about 1.5seconds behind Hamilton going into a corner later in the lap after Hamilton had passed him. Raikkonen ran wide and found more grip off the track and ended up right on top of Hamilton. Isn’t that gaining an advantage? And was this taken into question? NO!
julian,
the 25s penalty could be less severe because he has 6 points in hand from spa, and is a stong contender for pole, thus a stong contender for the win and 10 points, in monza. 16 points likely for the 2 races.
if he takes the 10 spot penalty, he keeps 10 for spa. starting at best 11th at monza, is it likely he’ll finish 3rd to match the 16 points?
You are just subjective because you are british: Hamilton is british and so is McLaren. When you cut a corner, you are penalized…that’s life…or formula 1. Let’s not forget how Hamilton was ‘helped’ by stewards last season…I was furious then because rules were more ‘equal’ for Hamilton than for the rest of the drivers. Things seem to have a way of equaling out them-selves.
me again ,looking at the replies on this subject, it looks to me the enormous majority is in favour of our man lewis.world champ 2008 oh yes ,it has been written so shall it be so, lewis be cool ,you be cool …do i sound like george clooney ?
This is interesting…
http://www.itv-f1.com/Fea ture.aspx?Type=James_Alle n&id=43872
we are subjective because we’re british ,thats because we have an enormous input into the technology of F1,ferrari ,mclaren .and we are blummin good at it.
that probably was taken into consideration but nullified because hamilton was effectively goin a shorter distance than him if u think about it because he’s on the inside of the curve…where as raikkonen was outside…so that doesnt matter
with regards to hamilton’s penalty…HELL YEAH FIA STEWARDS HAVE NO BRAINS!! if i could this statement would have a alot of stars in it..but stewards need theyre heads sorted because that is just out of order
Just the latest bit of work from the good old FIA, the Ferrari International Assistance
1) How does Hamiton get a 25 second advantage from cutting a corner, particually when he lets Raikonen back past?
2) There was no advantage anyway because Raikkonen didn’t finish.
3) No-one has brought up that Heikki Kovalainen was penalised for CAUSING AN AVOIDABLE ACCIDENT. This is exactly what Lewis was doing going on to the grass.
4) Raikkonen was the one who caused the incident by pushing Hamiton wide.
5) 25 seconds were deducted because Massa was 14 seconds behind, so 10 seconds weren’t going to be enough.
6) Every time McLaren do something that is slightly wrong, the FIA are on their back. But even when Ferrari do something wrong that is blatently obvious, they get away with it. It seems the bias has carried over from the Schumaker years.
7) If the stewards decision isn’t overturned and Hamilton loses the championship by the odd point then the stewards will have decided the championship.
while i think the decision was a bit harsh, i still watch f1 for f1, not for the Hamilton show. i think the coverage is too biased on Hamilton, and not on the overall picture. yes, i want to hear about him, but i also want to hear about the other drivers in there. i suppose the program has to appeal to the new audience that only watch for Hamilton, but i find myself almost resenting Hamilton because he is all they talk about.
i’ve just had a squint at the sun website and F1 god nikki lauda has a had a word on the subject…guess what race fans ..he’s on our side ,thats hamiltons side for the confused out there.and he used to thrash the nuts out of ferraris back in the day.
The simple answer is:
By cutting the chicane and driving straight through, Lewis gained an unfair advantage and was therefore able to pass Kimi later on in the race.
Without the chicane cutting, Lewis would’ve been too far behind Kimi. He knew by cutting the corner he’d be able to stick close to Kimi.
Lewis also tried to con the FIA into making them think Kimi forced him wide and offtrack, when both cars were wheel to wheel.
Lewis should’ve braked and resumed behind Kimi instead of being impatient and fighting Kimi like an aggravated Pitbull.
Hamilton’s impatience and inexperience is what landed him the penalty. Serves him right. Yes, of-course we all like to see overtaking in F1, but only if done in accordance with the rules made by the FIA.
(and incase you’re wondering, i am british…)
Personally think that it was overly harsh, Hamilton would have gone through anyway.
The advantage that Hamilton failed to cede was not only in terms of race position but also track position – he was already on the ideal racing line for the next corner and didn’t move – hence Kimi’s swerve once he was allowed through. Watch the onboard footage to see it.
Put it down to inexperience. Hamilton should have backed off and got him on the next straight, which he had enough speed for. Massa has been handed an undeserved win, 25 seconds is a little bit too harsh but all that is permitted other than a 10 place grid penalty.
To let this go unpunished would have set a terrible precedent, that it is OK to cut a chicane in order to line up the pass at the next corner. That would have been worse.
Correct decision, wrong punishment.
gking i like your version of what FIA stands for, between them they will do whatever it takes to stop hamilton getting his mitts on the silverware at the end of the season.even ramming him of the track(cue kimi) he wont win it now. i dont blame kimi or massa,i truly believe they would like to win on the track and not across the table of pen pushers in the FIA offices.ITS A SAD DAY FOR RACE FANS.
davy, good point.
Massa and Kimi are getting some of the abuse. The only thing that Kimi can be blamed for is that he possible push Hamilton too wide and onto the grass, but otherwise its the FIA that is the problem.
http://www.dailymotion.co m/video/x6ovii_wwwformula magcom-hamiltonkimi_sport
Judge for yourself, footage onboard with Hammy and Kimi.
How did he gain an unfair advantage? he was behind him at the next corner when Kimi made an ‘illegal’ defensive manouver (only allowed one defensive manouver, not 3)
I hope Hamilton thrashes everyone in the remaining races, wins the championship by 50 points and gives the FIA the V’s….o no wait, he’d probably get deducted 52 points for that and lose the title.
At the end of the day the current world champion drove into the wall (without anyone else’s help) whilst Lewis proved he is the better driver by making it to the chequered flag – where did any advantage gained have any affect on that?
How about this: http://www.planet-f1.com/ story/0,18954,3213_411684 3,00.html
Apparatly, the FIA did not investigate Kimi for overtaking under yellows
Didn’t investigate Kimi?
Must be a conspiracy… My advice – stop watching formula 1.
Now can we get rid of all the easy-come, easy-go Anglocentric Hamilton fans? I’m sick of all the crappy commentary, I just want to watch it in peace and make my own decisions without being barraged with “OMFG! HAMILTON WAS CHEATED!” at every opportunity.
Sign this: http://www.petitiononline .com/belgp08/petition.htm l
i watched the race and i have to agree that was a bit unfair to lewis. i am a ferrari fan but even i think the stewarts had got it wrong…
maybe lewis shoulda backed off a bit more but i think the result woulda be the same…
just my opinion
The three names are known: http://images.itv-f1.com/ ImageLibrary/49840_2.jpg
Just to prove the maFIA theory, please watch this link on yotube. It is of Shumi in hungary 2006 overtaking Del a Rossa in an almost identical situation. The few differences are that Schumi was in a Ferrari and Rossa in a Mclaren. Schumi cut the chicane in the same way as Hamilton only unlike Hamilton he did not give the place back, he carried on in front and even though the commentators are convinced he has gained an advantage and will be penalised, he does not get a penalty. What a total farce. This video alone proves the maFIA are alive and well. http://uk.youtube.com/wat ch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM
Anyone notice Raikonnen overtaking Hamilton on a yellow flag after the chicane incident. I think thats an illegal move.
Silence from the Stewards…tum te tum te tum.
Bias? no no no no no!!!!!
I’m really mad at this, I’m from Mexico which for me means that I have to get up at 7am in the morning after getting drunk and having only 3 hours of sleep only to watch the race. I just can’t belive how unfair this is, actually I don’t mean unfair I mean blind, one sided and stupid.
The race was for the most part boring and dull, it had some good moments in the pits and some good overtakings by Keikki but for the most part was just boring until the end where the race became alive and the top drivers where really put to a test, for me it was spectacular to say the least I felt like it was worth it to wake up still drunk and endure a biblical hang over to watch that bit of driving
But after this I’m not sure I’m gonna get up for Monza I just don’t think it will be worth it, besides I am a Mclaren fan and I was watching the race with a mate that is such a Ferrari boy and made fun of him after the race, now I’m never gonna hear the end of this
Bloody ferrari…. this way they wining the titles ….Now it’s time to print 780-pages books and throw them around Mclaren boxes )))))
Aye! Well written, indeed. The problem is, it’s hard to maintain fairness when there’s so much backroom politics and such. Short of a getting a democratic council(which sometimes fails as well), it’s really hard to have a benchmark for these things.
At least one thing’s for sure; Ferrari are definitely going to back Massa, even Kimi, for the championship. It’s going to be hard on Kimi if he wants to win the championship again.
The FIA occasionally makes these blunders, and we all complain about them, but really, it’s not going to change anything.
just one thing to the people claiming Lewis got a tow. How? The only time he was directly behind the Ferrari was when he moved across to pass at the hairpin. The rest of the time he was behind, to one side.
Allow me to clarify something.The attacks on the British fans are extremely unfair,and uncalled for.I’m a South African,I’m an Indian,I have no ties to Lewis Hamilton.In fact,when he started in F1,last year,I did not support him.Being a McLaren fan,I supported Alonso,until Lewis trounced him in an identical car,a man with no World Championships under his belt,heck,no real experience either…Inevitably,people will come out and say Alonso was treated unfairly,but there’s no evidence,we have Alonsos’ statements,a man protecting his dignity.Fair enough. But say what happened in Hungary 2007 was evidence of McLaren favouring Lewis and I dare you to say Lewis’ penalty on Sunday was fair…Hows about I introduce a new idea.Stop the personal attacks.It’s interesting to note that the people who think (the penalty) is unfair are expressing their dissension with the F.I.A,not Kimi,who ran into the back of Lewis at La Source AND overtook Lewis under waved yellows,or at Felipe,who,to be honest,didn’t do much worth mentioning in that race.I’ll admit,alot have an anti-Ferrari message,but that’s just because we don’t like Ferrari.I’m only 18,and I’ve only been watching F1 for ten years now,but let’s get one thing clear.The first race I watched was Monaco 1998,the year of the
MP4-13.Knew absolutely nothing about F1 except that there was a silver and black car with a three-pointed star on the nose.First time I was exposed to dodgy Ferrari/F.I.A tactics?You guessed it.Silverstone.Michael “Nemisis” Schumacher being declared race winner without serving the penalty he was required to.So that’s why I,personally,don’t like Ferrari.All I’ve ever known to come from the red “pit” (pun Intended),was dodginess.
But let’s get passed that.Kimi won the championship in 2007,good for Kimi,McLaren never supplied him with a championship-winning car,so he went and found one.Good move.I didn’t cry when Kimi won,I celebrated a bit,not for the team but for the man.So don’t accuse me of being biased toward Lewis…
Forget the opinion.Focus on the facts.I wasn’t much good at Physics at school but I do know this much.A car that is going slower can’t have an advantage over a car that is going faster,unless F1 has changed drastically while I wasn’t looking and the plan is to be slowest,in which case neither Kimi or Lewis would figure much,that mule of a Honda would have it under control…But back to the point.A car that is going slower CAN’T possibly be going faster.It’s kinda self-explanatory,and,like me marrying Kate Beckinsale,is a universal impossibility (DON’T call me biased toward th Brits for that,she’s just pretty).Look at the footage again closely.How much space did Kimi really leave for Lewis?Enough to fit a McLaren in?Doubtful.Lewis could’ve tried to make the corner,and taken Kimi out.End of.Seemingly,if you drive a McLaren,you aren’t allowed to overtake,cleanly or scruffily (HEIKKI WHY SUCH A BAD START???). He didn’t,he did cut the corner,but let Kimi back ahead,which the rules implore you to do.Don’t know whether Kimis’ ceaseless weaving(yet another infringement) threw all of you,but watch the footage again.Lewis is not in Kimis’ slipstream,Kimi actually pulls away accelerating out of the last corner on the run down to La Source.Lewis outbrakes and overtakes Kimi.And yes,I agree.It is COMPLETELY UNFATHOMABLE for Lewis to have overtaken Kimi so easily without any sort of illegal advantage,it’s not like he was faster before that point…And yes again.That was sarcasm.
I won’t get into Kimis’ various infringements,no-one seems to want to hear about that.As much as I idolise the man,he’s no longer the Iceman I once knew,and his blood is now red (mine is silver,black and red),which means I can no longer put using dodgy tactics beyond him.He will never get penalised,if he drives that Ferrari until he retires,so I guess the dodginess is understandable.And do not talk about the bias in that statement,it’s been proven historically,and besides,was it that fairness,that unbiasedness,that led to both Lewis and poor Bruno Senna being compromised in their respective championships,two weeks after Massa was not due to the fact that,”It would take away from the spectacle”?Wait a minute!There’s my point!Penalising a Ferrari would deter from the spectacle.Penalising a McLaren and a GP2 driver would not,as they do not figure in the spectacle.Pointedly,blata ntly,it’s a one horse show.
As much as I love F1,I can’t take it anymore.I should’ve known it was too much for me in 2001,when I watched in tears as Mikas’ car gave up on the last lap of the circuit HE owned,Catalunya.I will now get my kicks out of motorsport of the two-wheeled variety,namely MotoGP and World SBK.As good as the brilliant Martin Brundle is,those faffers named James Allen and Mark Blundell do such a wonderful job at doing a terrible job they undo all of Martins’ efforts.The commentary teams on the above-mentioned motorcycle sports are infinitely better and more astute at conveying the sense of excitement and occassion they should.
And one last point,McLaren do not have a marked car advantage.It’s just that Ferrari aren’t s far ahead as we all expect them to be.Boy,they miss Schumacher…Come to think of it,Ferrari have built a McLaren!An early 2000s McLaren!It’s not particularly fast,and it’s heroically unreliable!Hold on.Aren’t McLaren supposed to have stolen Ferrari information??Does it also work the other way around??That’s the 100 million dollar question…Oh and by the way.Take it easy on Heikki.He my have a good car but he isn’t as purely talented as Lewis.And bear in mind that this is only his second year of competition.And he has had fairly bad luck.
Senna was the best ever.
Mika stands as second best,a true gentleman of the sport.
Kimi closes off the podium,being,what I think,is the fastest driver in the history of Formula One.
Lewis…Hmmmmm.Not quite up there with the greats yet,but he will be,though you kinda see him as more likely being on a list featuring the Prosts’ and Schumachers’ of this world,rather than the Sennas’ and Hakkinens’.We remember Prost,Schumacher,for the results they achieved,and Mansell for looking a bit like Jeff Foxworthy.We remember Senna,Mika,Kimi,from the way we felt from watching them,the way we cried at their pain,the way we smiled when they triumphed.Far from PR robots,they made Formula One fun…
1)Belgium 2008 – For the entertainment value,NOT the result.
2)Japan 2005 – Kimis’ finest hour,the day he became a legend.
3)Spain,Great Britain,USA 2001 – When the car worked,Mika & MP4-16 were irresistible.
Cheers and kind regards to all from a sunny and blisteringly hot South Africa.
Is the FIA always Ferrari-biased and is Hamilton always the victim?Just a thought…Last year,in Japan,whilst following the safety car,Lewis broke the rules:He was more than the allowed 5 car lengths behind the safety car.He wasn’t penalised.Since then,the FIA have changed the rules to 10 car lengths.Just saying.Also,Lewis was seen to be driving ‘erratically’(a potential penalty),which included brake-testing Vettel and as a consequence, Webber ran into the back of Vettel(who was penalised at the time).Lewis:not penalised.Again,last year,when Lewis spun off in the rain into the gravel-trap(Japan again?Can’t remember!),he was assisted by a crane -the car,with Lewis and all were literally lifted out of certain retirement and back into the race.Maybe,it wasn’t quite illegal due to some stupid loop-hole(?!)in the rules but I just can’t remember any other drivers getting away with anything similar without being penalised.I’m sorry if i’ve got some of my facts wrong (surely some of it is right?!) but my point is,although Lewis was harshly treated last Sunday,he got away with quite alot last year himself.Sure,everyone,fee l free to feel sorry for Lewis and a bit agrieved BUT this frenzied over-the-top outcry at the ‘disgusting’ treatment of Lord Lewis is ludicrous.Reading the majority of these posts,i’m embarrassed to be a British F1 fan! Get things in perspective people!
Couldn’t care less.
As someone cleverly said don’t buy Ferrari products. Mugs,zippo’s, shirts, condoms, mops, chewing gum, bobble bath, socks and flee collars …
I was thinking of buying a 599 for tugging some caravans and school runs but this travesty will, surely,make that purchase absolutely amoral.
:rolleyes:
Nah, I don’t think Kimi is a legend. I don’t see him as one of the best, he’s just good enough to take a reasonable Ferrari to the world championship. And lewis will never be like Senna, no one will, nor he will be like Niki Lauda, one of best ever. I see the scale of driving greatness as The ones (Senna, Fangio, Niki Lauda, Emerson Fittipaldi, Nelson Piquet, Graham Hill…) The very good ones(Schumacher, Prost, maybe raikonen, Massa, Alonso, he did beat schumacher after all…etc.. and the Wannabe racers (Lewis Hamilton) Sure, Lewis is an F1 racing driver, no arguments, and I am a wannabe racer too, xcept I’m not a racer =*** But Lewis is down because he complaint about “being pushed off the track”…come on…he pushed massa off the track in Germany and Massa didn’t say a thing. Even Schumacher was pushed off the track in Brazil (My beloved homeland) by Montoya! And didn’t complaint! I will say again, he’s a crybaby still. Just like Alonso was until this year. Remember of what happened in Spain 2007.
Ripsnorter. I agree with you completly. “Oh, poor Lewis. There’s so much unjustice to him.” The DRAAAAAAaaaaaama. I do hate the way they punished Bruno Senna for the same crime as Massa with a drivethrough….and massa got a bill at home…Senna was fighting for the championship too =\ Really I only disagree with you aabout Ferrari being sometimes favored. I support Massa and the emotion of the sport, but I still hate Ferrari (maybe it’s because of schumacher) what I do think is wrong is putting Hamilton on the 1st place at the podium and then saying “oh, give me that trophy back, it’s not yours anymore.” It could’ve been with even with Rosberg, I would still feel the same, it’s ridiculous. The podium shouldn’t have taken place if that incident was going to be investigated. I mean, wait for the decision then make the podium.
Wow! Some of you have no idea.
gking – Kimi pushed Lewis of the Track? Lewis was coming around the outside so Kimi goes in a bit deeper on brakes. It’s called basic defensive racing. As the car ahead and on the inside, he’s not going to brake fractionally earlier to give the passing car room? You brake as late as possible! Lewis’s problem was that he went in very deep under brakes too meaning he should have stood on the brake pedal.
With regards to passing on yellow, if a car is travelling at reduced race pace, you cannot pass but if a car goes off like Lewis did under yellow and you pass him, you don’t have to let them back through. A more obvious example of what I mean, if the leader spun under yellows and faced the other direction, still running, would you expect all the cars that pass him to slow down? It would be different under a pace car.
To those arguing that even though he had a slight advantage, it wasn’t 25 seconds worth, you guys have no idea. That small amount of cheating stole him P1, 2 laps before the end of the race. Kimi ended up having to push harder than he otherwise would have had to. Without cheating, Lewis would have been at least 3 or 4 seconds behind. He would have lost all momentum in the corner and onto the straight. In F1 terms that’s a VERY handy buffer 2 laps from the end of a race meaning Kimi could have driven at 99% instead of 101%. Who was robbed???
Some of you honestly believe that this is the Lewis Hamilton Show and not motor sport.
Ripsnorter
I have to agree that Hamilton has been fortunate on occassion.However,that incident when he was craned back onto the track(also can’t remember,but don’t think it was Japan,maybe the Nurburgring or the Hungaroring?),he was the only car that wasn’t plugged in the barrier,as well as being the only driver who had kept the engine running.And just to inform you,Michael Schumacher set that precedent by being assisted at the Nurburgring in 2003,marshalls pushing his car back on to the race track after he spun and beached it in a fight with Montoya.In that instance,however,the race was not stopped at the time.And also,interestingly,the safety car rule is another rather ambiguous one.Accusing Lewis of breaking that rule would seem unfair,whether 5 car lengths or 10,aren’t all drivers leading the race under the safety car guilty of dropping back and playing the cat & mouse games before the restart,allowing the safety car to scamper off into the distance?
At Marcos
I don’t exactly see how you can dispute my opinion.What I think is what I think,regardless of what you think or your view on the situation.I did not say Kimi is a great,I merely said that,IN MY OPINION,he is the fastest driver ever in Formula One.Feel free to believe otherwise,I cannot stop you.If I were exactly like you,this forum would be pretty dull,wouldn’t it?
Everyone just needs to calm down a bit,regardless of the rights and wrongs of the entire situation,the fact remains that the result is out of our hands,and I’m sure we can all find ways to say our piece without attacking or degrading each other.I’m trying my best,this is my first time on a forum actually,so I’m just trying to express myself as well.But to label Hamilton a crybaby would be wrong,I can remember countless times,even this year,when Felipe complained about something or the other,and if you don’t believe it’s happened at all,need I remind you of Monza two years back,Massas’ complaint resulting in a penalty that could have cost Alonso the championship?And maybe Michael doesn’t complain much,but is attemping to physically attack fellow drivers better or worse?I say worse.
Patriotism and freedom of expression are all well and good,but surely a line must be drawn when it becomes public discrimination and degradation?After all,this column includes all races,I’m sure,from all classes and all walks of life.Surely there’s no need for personal attacks on drivers,or other bloggers,just to get your point across? (Marcos this is not specifically aimed at you)
At a time when confusion is ruining the sport we love and no answers are forthcoming,can’t we all converse and come to our own conclusions together,knowing full well that we are unlikely to get any answers of any reasonable merit from the governing body we all seem to hate?
Just a thought
Kind regards
regarding gking’s post #145
1) it wasn’t a 25s advantage. i have laid out the rules for you in post #119.
2) incorrect, irrelevant, just plain wrong
3) heiki’s incident is irrelevant. cutting the corner wasn’t hamilton’s infraction, not sufficiently ceding the resulting position was.
4) you are delusional, get help
5) again, i have kindly laid out the rules for you in post #119
6) as i said before, formula 1 is nothing without ferrari. this leads to special treatment. sad, but true.
7) it wasn’t the stewards driving car #22.
as for complaints about kimi passing under yellow-
nico rosberg spins off, and re-enters the track in front of the leaders. to avoid nico, lewis goes off track. kimi doesn’t need to leave the track in order to avoid nico. had lewis found a way around nico, without leaving the track, he would not have been passed. the bottom line is, “you leave the track, that’s your problem.” surely, nico should be penalized for his unsafe re-entry.
as for kimi taking the long way aroung turn 13, no advantage was gained, and it was the safe thing to do. when he ran wide the second time, he re-entered sooner, and wiped out on the paint.
All of you are sore losers. If it was Kimi the one who one and Hamilton the one on the wall you’d all be crying against Ferrari. And whats this nonesence about F1 being on Ferrari’s side?? Last year it was all for Hamilton and none of you said anything. The truth is Hamilton didnt back off enough which allowed him to stay near Kimi to pass him on the next turn.
Now if you all stopped kissing your English star maybe you’d be able to see it clearly. Stop crying to the fact that Hamilton is not as good as you’d like him to be, as far as I’m concerned Kubica is far better than any of them. Hamilton got lucky to have a good car in a good time, not entirely down to him.
I remember people speculating F1 to separate from the FIA. Now, with the current circumstances it has to be a serious proposition.
I say F1 has to part.
We have had enough biasness already and to top it all it seems that the FIA eats out of the hands of F1.
F1 has all the legs to separate from the ludicuracy, and so it should.
Or atleast there should be an accountability committee formed with all the teams’ representation which must see to the decision of the stewards and the FIA of any biasness and render it undone.
Its the teams who matter,as they are the ones who race. Its the racing which matters.
Who needs FIA anyway? Max Mosley…
To z3d
I have to argue that point.The advantage would,at most,have been two seconds,three or four is a few too many.Lewis was SUBSTANSIALLY faster than Kimi in the conditions,and I believe he would’ve caught him regardless.Also,to say that he was driving at 101% as compared to 99% because he was chasing and not leading doesn’t seem right to me.Does one have to push harder to catch an obviously faster car than one has to push to stay ahead of an obviously faster car?Is this not Formula One,should the top drivers,the World Champion especially,be driving at anything less than their maximum?Did it appear to you at any point during the race,that Raikkonen was pushing any less than his absolute maximum?Did he not come out and say,himself,that it was,”All or nothing.” and didn’t he say that he had to win at all costs?
Carlos
Last year it was all about Hamilton,no bias to Ferrari,excepting the 100 million dollar fine and loss of constructors points and revenue generated by winning the Constructors World Championship,I’m sure?
Indeed there are sore losers,but lest we forget,Hamilton WON the race.The only man that challenged him for the victory plugged it in the wall.A victory by inheritance is a hollow victory,a victory by theft is no victory at all.
There is one thing I cannot understand.
Lewis backing off.
He was initially to the Left of Kimi Leading him.
Backed off, and then went to the right of Kimi before throwing him a dummy.
For a Dummy manouver you have to be completely behind the car otherwise you’d simply crash into it. If Kimi didnt have the legs to pull away from the McLaren so it’d be his fault.
Then afterwards Lewis closed the door on to kimi successfully executing the manouver.
And please, both Ferraris have demonstrated earlier in the season how trecherous they are when its slippery.
And both Kimi and Massa have been wreckless drivers in the wet.
If Lewis had the pace such as Heidfeld that clearly means he is a better wet race driver.
And the people who say that if Lewis had backed off even more then kimi should have been pressurised to have thrown his car in to the wall then, mates, I am still a kimi fan, but you’re not helping.
What you are trying to say is that hamilton, being in the wet slippery track had the nerves to pull that manouver out of the hat and kimi didnt have the nerve to even take that cleanly even with hamilton skidding off and himself taking the lead.
Either you have to admit that Ferrari is trecherous in teh Wet or that you have to say that kimi doesnt have the nerves.
you decide…
Competition Is Dead
You have to accept that every F1 driver should block under the circumstances so unless Kimi had a brain fart (like Massa had a few races ago when he let him through without blocking) Lewis’s move was futile. Then even when it was obvious that he wasn’t getting past he still kept trying it on. It was the 2nd part of the move where he was still pushing when Kimi obviously wasn’t going to let him through that he chose to cut. He could have avoided going off circuit. At that point to make the corner, he would have had to slow right down to almost a standstill to avoid contact. You see this all the time in racing and quite often, the car that is doing the passing gets passed by the cars behind him because he has compromised his corner speed and exit. Remember that this would have lead him onto the straight at a significantly reduced speed. Kimi did sacrifice his line and speed but only slightly to block Lewis. Certainly nowhere near what Lewis would have had to.
Half a lap later, cars were going off left, right and centre. Having a couple seconds buffer does mean to certain degree you can be slightly more conservative, sacrificing a couple 10ths on a some of the very damp corners to play it safe. A couple 10ths in F1 is huge safety margin.
Remember, the drivers are there always to win. They will always try to do whatever gives them the best possible chance for a result. They will not take risks for no reason, so of course they will drive conservatively if they have some margin to play with. Obviously!!
What annoys me in all these discussions about rule-breaking, British bias towards Hamilton etc, is that Ferrari rule-breaking is never-punished, while for MacLaren the FIA invents broken rules.
-Lewis let Kimi through again
-Kimi passed him afterwards
-Kimi broke his car
-Lewis gained no advantage
While a Ferrari can hurtle around a track with a piece of metal dangling. Baffling
Haha wat a load of crap
I myself race Karts in new zealand and know the basics or motorsport and driving..(to those who are saying “u dnt know sht about f1″ FU)… if you go of the track onto the run off area and go back onto the track infront of another competiter then you let them past simple, if u dont then consequineces….What did Lewis do?
Let kimi past am i correct?… SOOO what if kimi was just 20 inches in front… Who gives a knob..
He still in front aint he…?? Of course a million dollar athelete like lewis isint going to just give half a Flippen straight to Kimi…
Comon Get over the Flippen polotics and concerntrate on the blimmen racing.. im sick of watching old f1 stewards bicker over who did what… Leave the war on the track FULLSTOP!
Thanks kids
Stupid article. Overtaking in that circumstance is forbidden. The side of the track is for braking safely not for overtaking safely. Hope FIA adds a standard penalty for the drivers overtaking that wat, that is 10 seconds stop and go at the pitlane.
Going wide has never been penalised.
nice one mitch. So if i’m 50 metres behind the car in front of me, I can just just cut a corner to get right up to his gearbox, can i? I didn’t pass him? so what if I’m 20 inches behind?
If Hamilton gets away with it, then every driver would attack hard on the outside of that corner and push wide and cut the corner for the easy tow and pass on the straight. Alternatively the leading driver makes space for you and you have the inside line for the next corner. What a stupid argument.
Forgetting all that, the rules are that no advantage can be gained from cutting. Clearly being right up the back of the Ferrari near the start of a straight is a massive advantage of where he would have been.
Wtf hamilton was behind kimi before the corner.. kimi defended the inside and hamilton was faster going into the corner he probly would have had no choice to try the outside…and then kimi exits the corner wide.. maybe not knowing lewi right next to him… Lewis has no choice but to use RUN OFF AREA (whats its For DipShits) to save himself from taking out both of them andd ALLOWS kimi to pass… Like he said he did in the interview after the race AND then carrys on like a usual… i reallly dont see the prblem with that… thats racing… and if kimi cant take being beaten by a BETTER driver then Tough shit Get used to it…
Firstly, i’m not a Mclaren or Hamilton fan, unfortunately i follow Rosberg and Williams. But the decision was clearly a false one, as stated in the article the laws of physics dictate that Lewis must have been travelling slower than Kimi otherwise Kimi would not have re-passed. Lewis simply out-braked him, we have all seen the non-chalancey with which Kimi has drove recently, he made it easy for Lewis. Lewis only cut the corner because Kimi shut the door on him so blantantly going into the chicane, if Lewis hadn’t lifted and cut the chicane he would have hit Kimi and then he would have been in more trouble. The fact that Kimi got in front again and subsequently spinned has nothing to do with it.
I only worry that the FIA will have no choice but to stick with their decision, other they will come across as weak and any future decision they make will be even less respected. I am sick of the constant percieved bias by the FIA, it is ruining what is becoming an increasingly processional sport anyway. Roll on 2009 and fat slicks….
He did not lift, he was 6kmh slower because he had lost momentum whe crossing the chicane, and that is why he has been penalised.
After reading a lot of responses I can say that almost all the people just wrote without knowing why Hamilton was penalized 25 seconds. The idea is that Hamilton was supposed to be penalized with a drive-through but because the race was over, he was penalized with 25 seconds because this is the estimated time that it is considered you lose when you do a drive-through. 25 seconds is a just penalty!!!
Guys…you need to understand the technical side before commenting. A chicane is a speed trap with a purpose. Had Lewis gone around the chicane and not jumped it, he would have lost almost two seconds to raikkonen because of the nature of the move that he planned. he would have to brake harder and come to a complete stop to get around the chicane without jumping it. As a result he would easily loose two to three seconds. then he would not have been able to duck into raikkonen’s taill at least a lap further. That’s the advantage he gained and that’s the reason why he is penalized.
it’s unfair for you to say raikkonen was “screwing it all up on his own” we saw other drivers having problems. ok, maybe not as big problems, but they weren’t under massive pressure. Massa though, doesn’t deserve the win at all, he was a non-entity throughout, but i think heidfeld’s decision (and it was his, not the team’s) was fantastic and from taking a risk he thoroughly deserves a podium finish. But raikkonen is in the same position (points- wise) with 5 races left to go than he was with 4 races left last year. But who won (the championship) again?
In my opinion the stewards’ decision was absolutely right.And i’m not claiming that cause i’m a ferrari fan but because the telemetry showed that Lewis lifted the foot from the gas only to lose 6km/h.So he had an advantage over Kimi which is translated in the 25secs that he conceded.
I would like to know if the situation was opposite-if it was Kimi who did that instead of Lewis-then would you all McLaren fans complain of the penalty given to Lewis???By the way it was kimi’s race.If it hadn’t happened Lewis hadn’t a chance of winning
well if your a greasey italien like yourself ferrari tiffozi then you would think thats right saying as all italiens are cheaters i hate italiens i wouldnt give them anything not even the steam of my s**t
The idiotic opinions of some fo the fans here I think is all down to the biased way in which f1 is broadcasted on ITV….. thank god it’s returning to BBC.
Whether you like it or not, Hamilton did break the rules and was punished for it, those who think Schumacher would have been let off, let me tell you, he would have been punished even more, remember in 1995 where at the very same track he was given a one race ban for the way he defended his position from Damon Hill?
Also this just shows that the rules are NOT vague, people just do not bother to read them and have the nerve to start moaning about it. When I was watching the race, I knew as soon as Hamilton made his move, he was going to be penalised for it, and trust me on this one, I may be a Hamilton fan, but I’ve read the FIA regulations.
1. People shouldn’t get pissed at Ferrari because they haven’t done anything wrong. They didn’t even complain to the FIA. And that Massa thing wasn’t his fault – he got the green light and left.
2. ALL the penalizations on Hamilton this year were legitimate. All were clearly his fault. But people cant accept that when he cut the chicane and came up right behind Raikkonnen, He didn’t just slow raikkonnen down when trying to back off – The time he would have lost by breaking properly just disappeard.
3. The 25 second penalty is the equivalent time he would have lost if he had made a drive-by penalty, which he couldn’t do because it was the last lap.
4. Hamilton needs to use that brain of his more – he acts too rashly and impulsively – he shouldn’t have tried that corner because there was no way he was getting through. But no… he charges at full speed through the corner while raikkonnen slows down(to turn in to the corner). He then realizes that it was a stupid move and used the run off area to get ahead of raikkonen. If he tried that move without the run off area (if he breaked), he would have lost a significant amount of time and that’s the reason he was penalized.
5. Hamiltons a baby.
6. Hamilton started out well because he started in a great car. All the other greats had to work their way up which is why they took more time than Hamilton.
7. Raikkonnen didn’t gain an advantage afterwards. He out braked himself and took the long way around. Hamilton had already worked up his speed by the time Raikkonnen re-entered the track and the distance and speed difference was exactly the same before and after the corner.
8. It doesn’t matter whether or not Raikkonnen finished – Hamilton broke the rules so he had to be penalised.
If Hamilton does not cut the corner the alternative to make the corner is ??? b r a k i n g. If he brakes for the corner he would have lost a LOT of ground. By cutting the corner he controlled how much he gave back to Kimi. Now, it might be legitimate as he is technically allowed to cut the corner as long as he lets the other go in front, but I think he cut it too close and the stewards thinking might have been that he should have “tucked” behind Kimi through the corner.
mitch – firstly, the rule is whether or not lewis was advantaged by cutting the corner and not whether he allowed kimi to re-pass him. you don’t have to agree with the rule, but Lewis was clearly in breach and fairly penelised.
Still no mention of a penalty for Raikkonen overtaking under a yellow flag. And he gained 1st
position by doing it?????
As he didn’t finish the race the minimum he should get is a 10 place retard
at next race -
or have F1 (Ferrari 1st) decided to let it go – against F1 very very clear regulations !!!!!!
I didnt actually see the race as i was at work but when my dad told me about the “stupid mistake!” which isnt even a mistake it was deliberate!! I used to support drivers so i supported Schumacher, when he retired i supported hamilton and i can now see just how loopside the FIA are toward Ferrari! I was fuming when i heard the news of this careless misfortune! Personally i feel that the stewards an FIA have been very unfair to Lewis this season. The amount of drive through penalties and demotions is just so un fair on him!
The only question one should be asking is…would Hamilton have been in the position to overtake Räikkonen at la Source, had he not cut the chicane? The answer is, of course, no he wouldn’t have, because he would have come out a lot farther behind. Therefore he gained an advantage that he not sufficiently gave up on on that short straight. I admit, it’s a tough one though.
They say that the cars next year are gonna have more capability to overtake, yet if you try it you will get disqualified for being pushed off the track! I went to see the F1 at the big screen, and i could see clearly that they where at the same speed so hamilton could have taken the corner and that due to kimi hinting to him to go off the track he had no choice because as hamilton said he would have hit kimi if he went commited to the second corner of the bus stop. AND if he was to gain an advantage why would he be BEHIND kimi and 6 KM/H slower over the line before the hairpin La Source. Anyway Kimi sucks as slipping off the circuit twice by being overkeen on the pedal. I heard that when massa pulled infront of sutil dangerously he only got a 10k fine, thats nothing in F1 terms, and when Bruno Senna does the same thing at Spa he gets a penalty. all FIA suck
what i really dont understand is how lewis had an advantage if kimi was going 6kph faster.So how come when massa nearly ran over a camera man and nearly hit sutil in the pit lane at valencia did he only get a fine?and when kimi ran over one of the pit crew….nothing happened then.before all this bull **** it was one of the most exiting races seen in a long time now the fia have ruined it AGAIN.just hope hamiltion on sunday leaves all them numptys behind and kicks some ass… COME ON LEWIS…..SOD THE FIA
FIA ……. Ferrari In Authority????
1.Hamilton was 6kph slower when he let Kimi pass
2.There isn’t a rule of banning the driver who hit their team members.It’s all an inside the team matter
3.If Hamliton had brake and not go through the turn he would be meters away from Kimi.So he gained an advantage and that’s why he got penalised
4.Humpaz i’m Greek and sick and tired of all you nationalists brits!!!!
Don’t forget who stole info from Ferrari last year…
It wasn’t FIA to blame for that.Only you poor McLaren who run out of ideas and had to steal from the champions to record a win.
I will be in Monza on the weekend and will be waiting to see Ferrari cruising to victory!!!
He was penalized for doing something he should not have done. The punishment is unjust (again, my belief is he should have a 10 grid penalty next race but keep the win from Belgium) but the FIA will not overturn its decision.
For all of you who think the FIA is biased, really think about this for a minute. What do they have to gain by all of this? Yes, the championship is a bit closer but I still think Hamilton will pull it out. And this is coming from a die hard Ferrari supporter.
Really, like it or not, Hamilton is the new face of F1. If he keeps up the way he’s going, he will be talked about among the greats of the sport. So what benefit does F1 have by being biased against him? None whatsoever. It was a bad call by the stewards in regards to the penalty but he also did something he knew he should not have.
Onto Monza!!!
To Ferrari Tiffozi, you’re welcome to correct my facts but I don’t think Ron Dennis broke into the Ferrari’s filing cabinate. I believe it was a Ferrari employee who set about toting the documents around the padock.
A little off topic I know. Sorry to slow you down.
Sod off to all thoes on this forum who are not British. this is our forum so go find your own. of course we are going to feel outraged so there is no point coming on here and saying otherwise.
I personally am a huge fan of F1 and will no longer watch the sport if this judgment stands. whats the point if results are going to be fixed.
COME ON THEW BRITS AND BALLS TO ALL YOU FOREIGNERS, MAINLY YOU FERRARI FANS
I’m not British and please don’t mention nationality here… it’s not ferrari or McLaren. It’s those 3 blind mice who might be:
1. have ferrari in their garage
2. huge fan of ferrari
3. don’t like Ron Dennis or Lewis Hamilton
4. from my grandma era
I can continue listing them on one by one till this form is full.
One thing for sure..for Ferrari Tifosi, I pray every race for Ferrari to crash, engine blow up or just to get out of F1 all together.. and wish one of the other teams to win the race with dignity and gracefully..
I’m sorry to have mentioned the nationality but humpaz was swearing against the italians.But could you remind me of a non-clear win of the past?It’s not our fault that we are the best team on the grid.Do you think the only way to stop us is by punishing us?Or does it mean that FIA is against all the other teams?Also I think that Vettel is the new talent of f1 and not Hamilton aged 23.And sorry to be off topic but i have to answer to H:You are at one point right.The ferrari employee was Nigel Stepney who was friend(and unhappy at his job)of Mike Couglan a chief engineer of McLaren and they were friends.After that it was Dennis fault to accept that for his team.
Well it seems we may all be talking around in circles. According to the press McLaren may not appeal after all( http://en.f1-live.com/f1/ en/headlines/news/detail/ 080909103423.shtml ) I think that’s a pity, not that they would have turned the tide. But perhaps to put a line in the sand on behalf of roughly (if these blogs are anything to go by) 55% of the F1 fans.
On a side note, well done to topgear.com and it’s veiwers/webbers (or what do you call yourselves?) This has been a really great blog. Lots of great (and educated) debate.
…still not sure what side of the 55% I’m on tho!
And at this point i’m asking again because i didn’t get an answer.Could Lewis have passed Kimi if he had hit on the brakes and stayed behind him in the straight line?
Ferrari Tiffozi, I’m guessing that you might think you already know the answer and that is a rhetorical question. But I’m going to go with possibly… maybe.
A few people have suggested that he should have waited, but as somebody said yesterday, when racing you race – you don’t wait or you’ll be waiting. I doubt Kimi would give me a second chance
I still say that from where i was it looked as though slamming on the brakes at the point where kimi started to move across would not have prevented a crash. the only way to avoid it was to take the escape road. Unfortunately I dont think that there were really any well-positioned cameras that gave a decent overhead shot of how kimi came across.
Guys, come on. Enough of the controversy, what about Raikkonen’s rock’n'roll lifestyle and missus?
Why should we be surprised at the FIA’s decision to strip Hamilton of his fabulous win after all isn’t the FIA run by a bunch of perverted nazis!
i bet the FIA just want to make this year’s champ more interesting, more intense like last year.
also if, just IF the stewards’ decision is the correction, lewis only have himself to blame for being too aggressive and inexperienced. i personally think lewis shoulda backed off more than attack kimi again i mean clearly lewis was the fastest one in the wet on sunday
What are the Formula one organisers playing at???? When are they gonna give Lewis a break and let him do his job???? Anytime he shows any skill, he gets knocked back! Kimi did some great blocking up to the chicane, and Lewis responded with an excellent display of logistics and driving by following the rules, but still coming out on top!
Everyone knows its the wrong decision…maybe the only way he’ll ever be ‘allowed’ to win is if he moves to Ferrari…….food for thought eh….?
It’s in the official FIA rulings that he’s not allowed to make another move against the driver he let back through until after the next corner.
All the people who where there and bought a ticket should ask for their money back.
They paid through the nose to watch some decent racing. In stead they watched a farce, with a result that was more manipulated than a North Korean election.
Ecurie- yes but we didn’t find out about the decision or even the investigation existing until after we’d long left the track. Luckily we left having seen some spectaluar and tense-to-watch driving that left the thousands of ferrari fans slightly shocked. It was interesting that in Belgium- fairly neutral territory Id have thought- Hamilton got 10 times as many boos as cheers when his image appeared on the screens before the race. Afterwards it was mostly just silence from the ferrari supporters who’d seen their men outdriven and outclassed. And because I saw the podium celebration, believing it to be the true result- as I still do- I feel that all the time I was there it was brilliant. And it was one of the best races in years. Its a shame that such an average driver on that day was given the win by default. I’d be ashamed to win like that, just as I’d have felt bad for Lewis if he’d inherited the win from Massa in Valencia. No decent racer wants that. But I read comments where Massa was happy for the points gain.
Martin Whitmarsh added: “From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was ‘okay’.
“If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis’s actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time.”[1]
This shows that another mistake is beingmade by McLaren.
Why are they appealing to the FIA. Why not appeal to the criminal court and file a case against the Mosley brothers. Again, they would still end up being the ones at loss.
Reference:
[1] McLaren lodge Belgian Grand Prix appeal
(http://www.formula1.com/ news/headlines/2008/9/834 4.html)
You guys do realise how much bullsht this all is…
Like the guy said kimi passed under yellow flag… why he nt get penelised 4 that
MAYbe he did it accidentaly
MAybe hamilton did it accidentaly but he got penalised…What were arguing (people who think hamilton did nothing) is how stupid it is that you can be penalised for pretty much NOTHing but not penelised for breaking a REAL rule…
thats the argument
HAha ferrari tiiforzi guy
i was reading ur early coments and seen u saying that mclaren steal from ferrari to win…
Get a guide dog you dork we were already Winning races before that you knob
get a life
What i was trying to say mitch was that McLaren was in the shadows of renault and ferrari after 2004.i know that you have won races and championships as well.And about the guy that said that kimi should be punished for passing under yellow flag the rules say that he shouldn’t pass at the point of the track where there is the yellow flag.kimi had already passed that point so it wasn’t a penalty.at last spend some time to read and learn the rules and then write here you idiots!
Matt@221 – I’m a bit dissapointed to hear about booing at Spa. Although I’m sure it goes on to some extent everywhere, I was at Silverstone (stay with me, I’m not just bragging, I have a point), it was hard not to get caught up in Hamiltonitis fever with alot of cheering for him as he passed especially near the end. I didn’t see any booing for the Ferrari cars, more of an air of bewilderment (one driver in particular!).
I’m not his biggest fan myself but I noticed every second chip vendor had a photo of herself with Hamilton beside the till and when asked would be delighted to tell you the story behide the photo and how nice/sweet/downtoearth/no rmal he was.
Let us know your hamilton story
Just sayin is all.
Haha man its fun winding people up on this
At Competition is dead. So what if Massa complained about Alonso blocking his flying lap. Until now you only said about one rightful complaint. I don’t care if you say Hamilton isn’t a crybaby, I’ve made up my mind, he IS a crybaby, he pushes racers off the track then complained about Kimi defending his position by shutting the door on his face. YOU ARE entitled to your thoughts and beliefs, I just exposed mine. I had respect for Hamilton’s talent and driving, now I don’t, period.
To Competition is Dead. Oh, and I don’t feel ofended, didn’t attack any one that posts here, and I HATE SCHUMACHER. I don’t feel dull at all, if Hamilton had some good sense of being humble he wouldn’t have complained about being squezed on the track. He has the right to appeal if he feels that what he did wasn’t wrong, but complain about something he often does to overtake someone, that’s like being ofended because you tried to hit someone in a boxing fight and got beat instead. You try to overtake someone during a race, you expect that person to defend his position on the race.
The British Press has pushed Lewis Hamilton up on a imaginary podium by comparing him to Senna, Schumacher and even God ?
Even a thing that Lewis him self is starting to do.
even Formula1.com is in favor of the boy, a site that should be objective to the sport.
All the talk about the FIA being on some ones side
“The grass is always greener on the other side”
Ferrari was so dominant years back that the FIA made changes to the regulations so other teams could be in the fight. I think that was fair.
To be honest I think a lot of you forgot that Ron Dennis should be behind bars for having illegal documents in his possession.
McLaren got of with a fine, I think you have all forgotten that.
And you should be happy that they are even in F1 this year.
I think it is good for the sport that McLaren is so strong and that they are in such a close fight for the championship.
This case has been blown out of proportions by the press.
but I’m sure we will se more exciting races in the future, but I please for the sake of the sport. An old saying that fits this so well
” Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house “
I am really after a pair of these, but does anyone notice the prices creeping up? Why is this?