So see what you think of this, ‘cos it’s very similar to what happened at the weekend. I’m not going to say what the come back was, but you’d think events that went before would set a precedent wouldn’t you?
There’s no consistency from the FIA stewards from one year to the next – or maybe even one race to the next – as this quite clearly shows. They need some kind of impartial fair play Tsar who’s at every race and who can dish out fair, consistent rulings whenever they’re needed.
haha the commentry is hilarious. LOL
this was 2006 and Schumi didnt get penalised at all.
absolutely ridiculous
Well done, you have hit the nail on the head.
Now be sure to give the nail ample chance to hit back before nailing the whole thing down!
The FIA should publish who is going to win each race in advance so we don’t get our hopes up.
They do have that guy. He’s called the head steward…I’ll say no more
Well, thats Big Schu!
He can even get away with murder as FIA will cover it up for him!
It’s not by showing that that you’re going to make the FIA change it’s mind…
I agree that it wasn’t fair played from Micheal and he should have been penalised for that…
But you learn from your mistakes, don’t you ?
The problem is that because of safety reasons, their aren’t any walls to protect the pilots incase of a crash (after all, I don’t want to see another pilot’s death in live…).
But because there aren’t any walls, pilots don’t pay attention and just cut the corners…
I think FIA should do something about that… after all, the race takes place on the track not on the side of the track…
Here, Micheal and Lewis did cut the corner instead of hitting the opponent and crash both cars and by doing that they kind of cheated…
If it had been gravel or a wall, the race would have been finished for them (so Lewis on 3rd place isn’t bad after all… ).
Now, we can argue till the end of the world and it will solve nothing…
By showing the video I am sure you thought it was a great idea but it isn’t…
You wanted to show that Micheal did cheat by cutting the corner… so did Lewis… end of the story !
Try to look forward instead of always looking backward please.
I am not a Ferrari freak, nor a McLaren haters (even after the spying case…).
Lewis is an incredible driver, maybe better than Michael but he is still young !
Don’t ask him to win everything now, it’s only his 2nd year in F1 !!!
You might think that he is a driving god and so on and I am sure he will be… But not now, he is still young, impatient,…
I don’t know in the other countries but in France and Belgium he isn’t “Mr Perfect Guy”… He looks a bit big headed and “bad loser”.
Maybe Ron Denis and Anthony Hamilton put to much presure on him…
On the french TV they did an interview of Alonso about Lewis.
He said that while Lewis was partying with the famous people, Alonso was doing the settings on the cars. and a lot of stuff like this…
I really think that Ron Denis put to much presure on him by telling him he was the best and bla bla bla…
Ah Pierre-Yves, I wasn’t trying to make a point, I just thought it was interesting.
But I’ll make one now, and that is that they were both difficult situations for either of the four drivers involved and that these things happen. They’re racing incidents.
We as viewers love this kind of thing, we love the show, and I don’t think that the drivers should be punished for it. Whether it be Lewis, Kimi or whoever.
I like a bit of sly cunning on the track, and I think that there should be some leeway when it comes to wheel-banging. But I think it should be consistent leeway.
And I’m certainly not going to stop watching F1 like some say they are. Bring on Monza!
Nice one puttin this vid up, made me realise just what total idiots are running F1, i mean which out of the two would you penalise. Lewis was robbed of a great win, what’s happening to the ‘Racing’.
Fair play, but your forgetting this situation is NOTHING like what happened at spa, here, the man on the outside is the one being overtaken (regardless of who the hell it is) he has the right to maintain his position because he was not actually overtaken.
Jamie Hibbard is clearly a Hamilton fan looking for excuses for a conspiracy theory.
Might I add that he has gone off track to avoid contact, not gain an advantage like a certain cynical manouvre of recent days.
re Raj:
he was NOT actually overtaken~?
surely you’d need better glasses~? since when would Michael has the RIGHT to maintain the position when De la Rosa dived down the inside, make the chicane, whereas Michael just short-cut it and NOT even yield the position in which he should had~?
re Pierre-Yves:
Michael cut the corner and didn’t even yield the position yet no penalties were given. That was the fact and that was the difference between this and what happened on Sunday on which Lewis did yield.
Erm, Raj, did you read where I said above your comments, ‘We as viewers love this kind of thing, we love the show, and I don’t think that the drivers should be punished for it. Whether it be Lewis, Kimi or whoever’?
I’m not sure how that’s looking for a conspiracy.
And both drivers gained an advantage from cutting corners, and they both avoided accidents.
Oh, but you see, schu was driving a red car, red for FIA means god mode:on….need i say more? still, i think lewis cheated there
precisely Jamie, the punishment was harsh but look what it’s done for the title race. as a kimi fan (not ferrari) and a racing fan- nothing could be better than Hamilton and Raikkonen fighting it out at Monza (and Raikkonen winning…) for redemption after Spa.
If Lewis hadn’t cut across, then he would’ve caused a crash (so yes, he did go off track to avoid contact Raj). A cynical manouvre would be to carry on and cut the guy up at the next corner….see above YouTube clip for the perfect example of this. Perhaps in the next race McLaren will be penalised for have mirrors which are too shiney? Careful, you might put off a Ferrari driver.
also, will everyone stop doubting Raikkonen and questioning his motivation and blaming him for pushing hamilton off, Raikkonen had the racing line and defended beautifully and will win the championship again.
Schumi should be penalised, but this episode is different cause here the driver ahead (Micheal) cut the chicane serving its position, while Lewis took an advantage cause he overtook Kimi.
Lewis avoided an accident cutting the chicane, but he could simply use brake. I’m sure he would use brake if the chicane wasn’t asphalted.
Anyway, I think it shold be better if they let Lewis win the the race, and evantually penalise him at Monza qualifying session.
After reading countless comments, I couldn’t help but share my own opinion.
I view this from a near neutral position, because I am a BMW fan and I respect both Lewis Hamilton and the Ferrari F1 Team.
Here is how I see it:
1- Raikonen had the right to defend the way he did. He had the racing line.
2- Lewis DID cheat but cutting the corner. HOWEVER, it was the right thing to do, as he managed to avoid an accident. Also remember that he only has 0.1seconds to figure out what to do.
3- Unlike Shu, Lewis recognized he cheated, and AT LEAST slowed down to let Raikonen regain the lead.
4- While Lewis did seem to pass him a little too soon afterward, there was no doubt he was the faster driver. We all know that Ferraris struggle in the rain.
VERDICT: Lewis should have been penalized, but the right discipline would have been a 5 (or 10) position grid penalty at Monza. This way, he deserves his win in Belgium, but is warned about trying something like that again.
He did cheat, but the rulebook is not written in black and white, and this grey area is up for personal interpretation, so we will probably never agree.
Hopefully at the end of the season, Lewis missing 4 pts won’t make a critical difference.
The decision stands albeit right or wrong get over it.Rules are rules and it is up to the drivers regardless of who they are and what team they drive for to abide by them.Schumacher should have been penalised.Hamilton was quite clearly able to overtake the ferrari so he should have waited so that there could be no doubt of the result
Bent as a nine bob note! Where was the penalty for dropping exhaust sections on the track. Perhaps all the cars should be painted RED.
schumi did;t try to pass de larosa he was in front
and de la rosa didn;t manage to pass and then he took the normal racing line without being first…schumi had no room instead hamilton had a bit of tarmac with the kerbs not being too high being able to pass on them but DELIBERETALY changed line gaining advantage which he would never had if he had stayed next to raikkonen
I think this is even worse. but what the hell i thought THIS IS RACING!
Watch the newly found REINMEISTER Massa battle it out in last years Japanese GP!
http://video.google.com/v ideoplay?docid=9204841191 235811083&hl=en
might just go watch nerds battle it out in chess if this isn’t allowed.
Those 2 incidents arent remotely similar.Schumacher backed off but never gave racing position back to de la Rosa.
hamilton on the other hand back off enough to let kimi have excatly…and the key word here is exactly…the advantage he had going into the last corner. That hamilton could start racing more or less immediately after backing is a testament to his driving skill..he judged that to perfection. it was the niftiest and most awesome piece of driving I have ever seen and its a shame hes being penalised for that.
But I guess , at the end of the day thats the real problem..hamilton i sprobably just too good to be allowed.Sad really.
Btw..I’m a Ferrari fan!!!!
glad to see that some1 else picked up on this. unbelieveably considering the situations that schu had no penalty, but lewis did.
Similar but not quite the same. The difference here is that De La Rosa got past Schu and maybe the stewards didn’t deem a penalty necessary. Doesn’t explain why Lewis was penalised even though Kimi stuffed it in the wall.
So Jamie, what do you think will happen in Monza when inevitably the same thing will happen, given that there are 3 chicanes following high speed approaches?
lewis outbraked kimi, that’s good driving. then kimi defended his position on the racing line, that’s also good driving. lewis avoided a collision by taking the escape road, then let kimi back infront of him, that’s good driving and a bit of sportsmanship. then as far as i can see, anyone who drives a car knows how much momentum you lose when u lift off the throttle, and there’s no way in hell lewis had more momentum than kimi going into that corner… that’s not possible at all and to even think otherwise is just silly. kimi slammed the power down, you can see the back end wiggle when he does it. lewis was better there, and before stewards and bureaucracy got in the way of the natural order of things, lewis continued to show he was much better in the wet conditions for the rest of the race, then raikonnen spun off and the rest is history.
that was a brilliant race to watch and the fact is, as many have said, those of us who are fans of racing now have a closer championship finale to watch, and those of us who are fans of hamilton can take sunday’s display and know that if lewis can drive like that, he can definitely win this championship.
roll on monza… no point crying over spilt points.
um, is it just me or is the fair play man charlie whiting? does he think that to stop people thinkin he is bias to brits he has to punish them extra? what a twat.
Hamilton is innocent
I swear FIA work for ferrari
FIA = Ferrari International Assistance
Note – I am in fiull agreement with the World that Hamilton at this point, has gotten COMPLETELY Screwed by the FIA, and I may never watch F1 again because of it….BUT!!
Schuy had the position and PDR pushed him off. How do I know he had the position??
- The Next 2 corners were in MS’s advantage!, and he would Not have lost the position had he not been pushed off. No penalty needed.
(Side Note – Not to mention this is the race where MS SHOULD have come back from a lap down to win if he played his tire choice right with Ferrari, and it would have been the first time since Jim Clark’s incredible win (well alllmost win) at Monza. If you need me to explain how he should have won from a lap down I will. So he knew this and the race had fallen apart so he was pissed and was giving it his all.)
haha, precedents in F1? nooo, they just make up the rules as they go along – clearly.
As an Australian I don’t particularly follow either driver (go webber~!), and I know my 2 cents is worth alot less in the F1 world. But if i were the steward it’d need to be a very serious infringement for the race result to have been changed.
Fact is if what Lewis did was bad enough, he’d have gotten a drive through instantly – the fact they had to think about it usually means they’ll give the benefit of the doubt.
Lets all hope that next year half wings and slicks will bring back the driver influence, because as with everyone else I’m kinda sick of McLaren vs Ferrari, especially since it’s not a fair fight rules wise.
Have to agree with Johnathan,the commentary is brilliant.However,correct me if I’m wrong here,but don’t all you other international F1 fans break out in laughter when you hear an American commentating?Just doesn’t sound right…
Ralph,you’re an Aussie,you think your comment doesn’t hold weight,I’m South African(don’t hate me you Australian,lol),imagine of how little value my comments are!It’s an internatonal sport,broadcast almost worldwide,and besides,the Aussie Grand Prix is the season opener,so your 2cents is worth as much as anyone elses 2cents.
I call fairplay.It was white-knuckle racing,which Formula One sorely needed,it was awesome to watch,and it was a racing incident.The question I ask is,how can a rule that is so open to interpretation be policed so tightly?I still don’t see how a driver who slows to let another driver passed would gain an advantage.No matter how you look at it,in F1 Fast = Advantage,Slow = Disadvantage.It’s clear cut.You can’t have an advantage by going slower,as I posted before,it defies the laws of physics…
Then again,surely equals cancel out?And thus,we have the laws of physics,worked on by very smart men,being rewritten by very silly men.
Steward 1 : “And what if going slowly,against what that foolish Einstein and the like proved,could actually be an advantage?Ooooh yes,then surely there is grounds for a penalty??”
Steward 2 : “Yes,indeed,my fellow master of Science.It is grounds for a penalty,that guy in that silver car did unequivocally gain an unfair advantage by going slower!!”
Steward 3 : “Fantastic chaps!!Very well done.Yet again we have proven that that guy in the silver car is a cheater,I mean,look at how impeccable our reasoning is!How can people adjudge us biased?But lets be honest,how can we penalise the same guy in that silver car twice in one race?Won’t it raise questions?”
Steward 2 : “No no Number Three.That was the other guy in that silver car.”
Steward 3 : “Oooooooh.But how did we penalise him?Wasn’t that a racing incident?”
Steward 1 : “Number Three!Will you shut up!?!Doesn’t that little booklet we were handed when we were made Stewards state that,”Under no circumstances should that silver car be allowed to race competitively or overtake other cars,such action must be severely penalised.”.So you see,Number Three,it is the responsibility of the Stewards to enforce these rules.”
Steward 3 : “Aaaaaaah.So why are we penalising the first guy again?”
Steward 2 : “Because he won.”
Steward 3 : “Hold on.Is no-one allowed to win?”
Steward 1 : “Not him,that’s for sure.His car is silver,not red,Number Three.”
I’ll admit it does have Pinky & The Brain overtones.Nonetheless,jus t a little lightheartedness to let the Ferrari fans on this forum know that we,the McLaren fans,hold this more against the F.I.A and the race stewards than we do against Ferrari.
One last thought.Please do not ask me about the state of affairs in Zimbabwe.It’s all gone pear again.
“Nuff said
Kind Regards To All Respondents On These Forums,Hopefully Someone Of Influence Will See this And Help Make The Farce We All Love A Sport Again.
And one final thing.I really hope Lewis wins the title this year.But I will not be watching.
And let me state that I am greatly,and plesantly,suprised by the amount of Ferrari fans who are unbiased.Good effort,gentlemen.
I will express an opinion that,surprisingly,has not been expressed yet.I dislike Ferrari because they are they main competitors of the team I support.I do not hate them because they seem to be blatantly favoured by the governing body.
No,the stinking,flaming bag of blame lies at the door of the F.I.A.
Clearly,if you were walking down the street one day,and someone offered you a tenner,with the reasoning that,”I want to give it to someone,but not those nine blokes over there.”,you would take it.I cannot blame Ferrari for utilising this advantage on occasion,I’m sure that,in the same position,McLaren,Williams ,Force India would do the same.
I do not blame Ferrari for taking this advantage,it is,after all,competition.I blame the F.I.A for allowing it.I do not hate Ferrari,I hate the fact that the team I support are seemingly not allowed to compete against Ferrari.
To close,I’ve seen justification of Ferraris’ advantage as the fact that they are closest to the F.I.A.I do not agree.Let’s rather put it the other way around.Ferrari are close to the F.I.A in order to ensure,as far as possible,get what they want.Does a young woman not cuddle up to her sugardaddy to ensure she gets what she wants?
This is the way I see it.Maybe some would argue that they are wrong in accepting a sporting advantage.But if you’re not in it to win it,why be in it at all?
Even as a die-hard McLaren fan,I blame the F.I.A.I am sure I’m not alone?
pleasantly*
completely diferent, schumi was already ahead when lewis was behind
isnt this interesting, people claim the stewards are biased toward micheal schumacher.
need i remind you of 1997 where villeneuve was clearly trying to shove schumacher out of the road and then schumacher got penalised for trying toturn into the apex. and who can forget monaco in 2006, when there was a mechanical fault, which gave him no advantage whatsoever, as he was already about to beat his own pole time after setting the fastest first sector and the stewards penalised him even though he clearly gained no advantage from it and if anything would have screwed himself up to “fake” a problem. stop whinging you stupid poms and acheive some sporting glory without cheating.
and another thing, the fia only loves ferrari (like myslef) because ferrari is without question the most powerful and well supported team in the paddock. when mclaren and the rest of the teams wanted to break off and make thier own season of so called grand prix racing ferrari were the only ones who stayed loyal to the fia forcing the other teams to stay in the series, as wherever ferrari is will be the globally recognised world championship
perhaps the fia is merely repaying loyalty, and taking a zero tolerance policy toward mclaren after the spygate scandal which threatened to rip the sport apart.
the spygate scandal never threaten to rip the sport apart, well the Italian press and Ferrari fans would like to claim it’s ripping the sport apart. But better not get into too much details here.
but just FYI, every team spy on every single other team anyway. Even the Midlands back in that exact same year managed to has on their hand the details drawing of both the Red Bulls and the Toro Rosso racer so they could use it in their bid to proof the Toro Rosso car was illegal. Nothing was done about that.
Ive got to say, away from the politics, the Speed TV commentary makes me laugh!! I was in California for a year and I was actually happy to have the ITV coverage back… the english guy sounds permentantly wasted and very much reminds me of the Snooker commentator characters from ‘that mitchell and webb look’
hold onn,
he had a penalty because he didn’t gave Raikonnen enough space after he cut the corner and had given R. his position back … but after raikonnen past hamilton , hamilton went directly in to the slipstream and kept his speed…
As far as I see it, it may seem that this looks like the incident but, there is a huge difference between what happened there and what we all have been bickering about.
In this case shoemaker was ahead so he so he can actually get away with that as he kept his own track position.
But in this case Kimi was slightly ahead.
Yes you can put it this way that when entering the corner as Lewis outbroke kimi he was ahead.
So then there shouldn’t even be a problem and that Why did the FIA tell the McLaren to backoff in the first place.
Well one thing which can be said is that as the commentators mentioned you cannot KEEP a track position by missing a corner. But shoemaker had no where to go and so had Lewie.
McLaren: race control gave us the all clear [1]
Now how can FIA justify the penalty thay they have imposed on Hamilton. This is a reference from the OFFICIAL FORMULA1 WEBSITE.
WE NEED AN ANSWER FIA…
Reference:
[1]http://www.formula1.co m/news/headlines/2008/9/8 348.html
By the way, I’d really like to know what Jeremy clarkson has to say about this.
since most of you are british its only natural you favour lewis. i’ve been mika hakinen’s and mclaren’s fan (now just kimi’s), but the two situation can’t be compared, they are very different, michael schumacher was never overtaken, not even byfar, he was always on the lead. anyway, i’m not saying that michael should have been penalized, nore that lewis shouldn’t have been (i kinda like his attitude and driving skills), just that they are different situations with different outcomes.
YOU GOT IT SPOT ON MATE.Good research
Just before the Spa race, Bernie was interviewed by Speed (TV channel that covers F1 here in the US). The excitement was that a US race will be back on the calendar in 2009 or 2010.
Pop quiz;
What is the most lucrative TV market in the world for F1 sponsors?
Which manufacturer has the largest following in this market?
Which Country represents Ferrari’s largest market?
Which manufacturer winning the 2008 championship would generate the most awareness of F1 when it returns to the USA?
I really don’t think there is any conspiracy by the FIA as to which driver should win (now that MS has semi-retired!). Instead is just so happens that the economics and future of both Ferrari and the FIA are both tightly intertwined in recapturing the US market…isn’t it to be expected that they might help one another out…
Funny, Hamilton may gain any advantage and not get punished, while everyone else can’t. I’ve lost all respect for Hamilton and his driving when he complained that “Kimi pushed me off as much as he could.”, while Hamilton does that whenever the oportunity shows. I agree with Alonso that said his punishment was fair, because if he had braked (“oh but if he had braked he would lose ground on Kimi. *cries*” exactly, wich is why I think he gained advantage.) he wouldn’t be on Kimi’s gearbox on La Source, and only 1 meter behind him on the finishing line. Don’t know about 25s penalty, but he sure deserved to be punished for pulling a great manouver. Stop blaming Ferrari. As much as I dislike the F1 team Ferrari, specially when Schumacher was in IT, I do support Massa, because he tossed Alonso off the track in 2007 Spain GP very brilliantly and didn’t apologyze because he was defending his position on the inside and maintained his line on the track, he didn’t complain about being tossed off the track by Lewis in Germany, he did an explendid job at 2008 Canada GP, despite Ferrari’s ludicrous mistake, and Massa always wants to win ON THE TRACK. And for those who think he’s terrible in the wet, remember Fuji 2007 GP. The video posted here is inapropriate, since it’s no evidence to 2008 Belgian GP. Yes it’s a doubtful decision on the belgian gp stewards of 2006, and you may say Schumacher was favored, but he wasn’t left any space at all to make the turn or brake and wasn’t overtaken at all, doesn’t have anything to do with this year’s belgian GP.
Let me say this firstly!
Yes, I’m a McLaren fan and a Lewis fan too, naturally because I’m British. But I like motorsport, F1 and support all of the teams involved in this great sport.
I first started watching F1 back in the early 70’s as a kid, and have followed it ever since. One thing that I have noticed over the last fifteen years, is that the FIA does seem to have a bias towards certain teams and drivers. Michael Schumacher is one driver whom “butter would not melt in his mouth” in the eyes of the FIA. Plenty of times he had done something and got away without any penelty. Yet if that had been done by another driver, that driver would have been penalised for it.
It seems to be the same with Ferrari with the FIA. Take the fiasco with Ferrari’s pitstops the other weekend! Did Ferrari receive any penelty for that?
I watched the race live and rewatched the incedent with Sky+. Lewis was overtaking, Kimi forced him into the position to avoid an accident by taking the escape road. Charlie Whiting had given the all clear to McLaren for them to race again. I beleive Ferrari made a protest after Kimi spun out causing them too loose too many points.
But lets look at it this way instead. If Lewis did not take any action and collided with Kimi, do you thing he would get a penelty? Or if the roles were reversed and it was a Ferrari driver instead of Lewis?
From my own opinion from watch this great sport for over thirty years, Ferrari and Schumacher has too much influance with the FIA. Think back over the last fifteen years and analise it!
mdh
I disagree with your opinion on attempting to capture the US market. Ecclestone has no interest in that as he knows it’ll take multiple races staged in America for the sport to properly take off over there. This si the reason that we’re seeing races at Bahrain, Abu Dabhi, Singapore and India. There’s a far bigger market in Asia, especially since Abu Dhabi bought shares in Ferrari and Force India became a team. Theres also more money there. Claiming the FIA are favouring Ferrari because they want the American market. In truth its Ecclestone who has F1’s commercial rights and therefore Ecclestone who’d want the American market. As mentioned above, he’s given up on it, and gone to the Middle East and Asia, where he cna get no money.
People saying Hamilton had nowhere to go are wrong. Wacth the onboard footage. There’s a point where Kimi is clearly ahead and will block Hamilton, at this point Hamilton only needs to break and back off and then he can get Raikkonen later on as he knows he is faster. Instead he doesn’t lift off or brake and cuts the chicane allowing him to be closer to Kimi on the straight than he should and would have been by a long way.
Like Hamilton and McLaren, his fans and the British media seem to think he can do no wrong.
I do hope Lewis decides to actually turn at the chicanes in Monza. Otherwise it’ll be three times this year he’s decided he doesn’t need to turn at the second part of the chicane.
When he stops being so arrogant, big headed and admits to mistakes, I’ll have some respect for him. No doubt he’s a good driver, but until he goes to a team thats performing rubbishly and reverses their fortunes as Schumacher did with Ferrari and Alonso with Renault (see how their performance went down in 2007 as he left) then he has the right to mentioned alongside the names of Schumacher and Senna and all the other true F1 greats.
the difference is that Michael if u watch the throttle bar lifted till dela rosa was back level where as Lewis kept his foot down u can here it on the onboard footage. Maybe Michael should have be penalised for that but as it says above Michael was the one being overtaken
http://www.dailymotion.co m/video/x6ovii_wwwformula magcom-hamiltonkimi_sport
Its hilarious this lot! Simple – because it’s Hamilton and because he’s a Brit he gets a bashing whenever the opportunity arises – from FIA, from other fans. If he was driving a Ferrari he wouldn’t have been penalised. Massa and the Ferrari team got away with a blatant unsafe manouvre (angreed by all officianodos of the sport) in Valencia – what happended…err we wont penalise them during the race, well wait….err…it was all OK because no one got hurt….PLEASE!
how can people say there is no conspiracy lewis should take the fia to court for racial discrimination is this a colour thing or just a maclaren thing either way somthing is going on