That’s it then, the result we all expected. The FIA have decided that McLaren’s appeal is inadmissible to be heard, on the grounds that you can’t argue against a drive-through, which Lewis’ 25 second penalty basically was. Game on for the championship!
This case is yet another off track intrigue that has taken up a lot of time and interest away from the actual racing, but it was a pretty compelling case nonetheless (and we Brits seem to like a court case for some reason or other).
So it’s time to move on.
Lewis has said that he’s just focusing on this weekend’s first ever F1 night race, and that’s probably not a bad thing for us to do too.
Talking of which, Red Bull have done a pretty cool – and rather expensive looking! – Singapore Grand Prix circuit guide, which you might want to take a look at.
Bear in mind that this was made before Vettel’s win the other weekend, which makes this video’s ending rather amusing.
‘Who’s going to win?’ asks Webber. Well, it definitely won’t be you mate. But it could be him.
hmmm.. interesting. It seemed for a (short) while that their arguement was strong, especially the ‘Liuzzi’ presedent… cant i understand the decision fully..
but hey, that leaves it wide open, and means the championship wasnt decided in a courtroom. So yes, lets move on, and I hope the people below agree
haha!!!
So ye hamilton fans can continue complaining about how FIA is biased towards Ferrari and all…
And i really hope Massa wins the championship by atleast a 6points margin from Hamilton so none of ye Mclaren heads can go on about “aoo, if it wasn’t for spa hamilton would have been the champion!”…
The right decision was made.
The penalty was correct in the first place, and I am glad it was considered inadmissable, reversing it would have been bad for F1.
Well, can’t say I expected the decision to be overturned, it rarely happens that appeals work in any sport.
Anyway, it’s time for everyone to move on and get excited for this weekend’s race, which should be one of the highlights of the season, regardless of the result.
Good luck BMW.
I didnt expect for a second that they would grant him the points, what I really don’t understand is why the cross examination was performed by the Ferrari crack legal team when the appeal was against the FIA.
Surely they have their own and is this an admision that they are a actually the F(errari)IA?
Thing is, that was always destined to happen. Saying that it’s inadmissable is a great get-out clause. Too much grief to change the result back because then all the smug Ferrari boys will start crying too. A shame but as best as they could do I suppose – Meh!
WELL THEY LIVED UP TO MY USER NAME!!
STUPID USELESS FIA
It no use swearing.
Ferrari’s International Arse was always going to do this.
POINT NO. 1.
What the f*ck was a Ferrari Lawyer doing in the court. The appeal was filed against the stewards of the FIA not Ferrari.
and some say that the FIA(Ferrari’s International Arse) isnt biased.
I think its time for the Formula field to ignore Ferrari of their existance altogether, and act as if they do not exist.
If they are ruled separately then they are simply not racing. They should be treated as red coloured souped up safety cars from the rule book of the Ferrari’s International Arse
According to the official podium standings
1st Ferrari Driver 1
2nd Ferrari Driver 2
From the unofficial podium standings (FOR RACERS)
– Rest of the grid –
While I wanted McLaren to win the appeal, I am sort of glad that they didn’t. If the court started making drive-through penalties (which it was) appealable, I can foresee a future where every single drive-through penalty is appealed after the race and their times adjusted after the fact.
That there is the stuff of nightmares.
Now, if the penalty had been a starting grid demotion, I would feel differently. But, now that the rule about giving back a place has been clarified, I hope we will see race victories decided on the track, instead of a stewards meeting or a courtroom.
Go Honda!
From the FIA:
“Article 152 of the International Sporting Code states that drive-through penalties are ‘not susceptible to appeal’”
So why on earth was this appeal hearing called in the first place? Why have the media frenzy for the past few days if they were just planning to turn around and say the appeal is irrelevant anyway? Honestly, this smacks of a cold and calculated move by the FIA simply to rub salt in McLaren’s wounds.
Anyway, at least it means we’ll see a slightly more exciting end to the season (as if the last two races weren’t exciting enough!).
Time to stand back and enjoy the flame war.
Biased ferrari fans laughing annoyingly in the face of disappointed Hamilton fans and shouting ‘Forza ferrari!’ just to make sure everyone else hates both them and ferrari, leaving their Caps Lock on all the time as they go. And I’m sure they’ll reply with something along the lines of “You’re just a sore loser, all you English are” or some such nonsense. No, I’m just annoyed that sport isn’t sport anymore, that it’s all legal crap and the evil faceless organisation in charge is so picky. So stop being a load of sore winners. We all hate you for it.
I’d really hate it if the Championship was won due to a technicality. In fact, I’m tempted to watch Touring Cars instead.
If Hamilton wants to win his championship on the track, then maybe he should clean up his driving. He’s had a number of penalties this season because he has been breaking the rules. It is pretty simple.
Maybe we should act as if Hamilton doesn’t exist. Might deflate his ego slightly.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/s port/motorsport/2008/09/2 3/lewis-hamilton-slams-fe rrari-lawyer-during-appea l-hearing-115875-20749069 /
Looks like another stitch up for a Ferrari Championship, next year lets just award Ferrari the Constructors championship at the outset and toss a coin to see whose turn it is to be the Drivers Champion (that is between Kemi and Massa I mean)then have a REAL championship race to see who is the runner up. Sort of like whats going on in politics the Head of State is the Queen and her family, then the only competition is for the PM spot
Though I might see out this season, just because it was good to start with.
Oh as a postscript the online petition did top 62,000 not that it made a blind bit of a difference.
@Safcfan
Are you from some Health and Safety department, a Doctor or a Nurse may be.
Its racing mate. People still Love Senna because of what a bonkers driver he was.
I am not saying hamilton is better but he still is trying to be a racer.
I bet on it that you have never driven in a race ever. and all you know of the sport is from a sofa and a PlayStation.
*reads Sameer’s link*
Lewis does make a fair point, even if it might not come across very well to some readers/listeners. Just because you know all the chords, doesn’t make you a guitar hero.
(I’ll stop multi-posting now)
Quote:
“If Hamilton wants to win his championship on the track, then maybe he should clean up his driving”.
Have you seen the official Vid on Formula1.com for the Belgian race.
Did you see Hamilton catching his back, with that naughty McLaren.
I say Hamiltons all wheel drifts should feature in some Music Video.
Goth style.
Just seems a very strange (but convenient) logic to equate this time penalty awarded well after the race – and contrary (by all accounts) to indications given by stewards uring the race……. to a drive through penalty – which would only be relevant during an actual race for obvious reasons and at least a driver has the possibility of other race events that may help him. the icing on the cake as far as ridiculousness, is that Ferrari counsel do the cross-examination. I had gone right off F1 until very recently and this stuff turns me off it again – Moto GP is far more interesting. Anyway no surprise the appeal was rejected as that seems the clear bias.Oh well onwards to the weekend.
FIA = Ferrari International Assistance
@Safcfan
Are you from some Health and Safety department, a Doctor or a Nurse may be.
Its racing mate. People still Love Senna because of what a bonkers driver he was.
I am not saying hamilton is better but he still is trying to be a racer.
I bet on it that you have never driven in a race ever. and all you know of the sport is from a sofa and a PlayStation
………….
I’ve been following the sport for long enough to know what is a fair pass, and what isn’t. Cutting a corner, when you have the option not to, and then overtaking at the next corner, is clearly gaining an advantage. The way that Hamilton has been driving this season is as if he somehow feels he is above the sport. Saying the pitlane rules are ’stupid anyway’, trawling around on the racing line in quali when other cars are trying to complete their laps, cutting chicanes while trying to overtake, and not yielding the place back properly. He’s been his own worst enemy this season. He should be leading the championship easily, but he isn’t because of one person. Himself.
You don’t need to be a driver to see that. You just need eyes and a brain.
Done and dusted. Let’s move on and enjoy the remaining 4 races.
@Safcfan
1. ur an idiot
2. u must have missed hungary in 06 when schumacher clearly cut the chicane, took an advantage which he never even slightly yielded
In some ways i agree with the final result of the appeal. As it was considered a drive-through penalty it couldn’t be appealed and so be it. But why did it take the stewards TWO HOURS(!) to give Hamilton a penalty in the first place?
The FIA are starting to ruin the sport completely. But as long as it doesn’t happen again for the rest of the season. Lets move on shall we.
FIA are corrupted. Kick them out they’re useless at their jobs. Also get rid of Ferrari cos they’re just bullies.
The Italians must have put the gear box in back to front because in 1940s they only ever went backwards ( no Nazi overtones or links to Max).
I didnt think they would over rule the decision,Go lewis stick it up their broken exhaust pipe.
well thats it than
i mean did you seriously thought that it is going to go hamiltons way?
he has right to have his opinion
the man is in denial
hopefully that will have some effect on his way of thinking
he must be the only one on the grid thinking about himself being the best
he aint, he have not won the championship
and thats that
so for now
just get over it
pain in the ass
damn
Sometimes, I wonder why many people don’t watch F1. Here is a great example why, Ferrari have done the same mess before and what did they get for, a pat on the back. Now that Hammy has done it, penalize him. That seems so fair, if you binge drink ethanol. All I can say is go Hammy!!! I use to like Ferrari for Michael schumacher. But now they have a robot driving for them whom likes to crash and Massa (He is ok). Hammy makes racing fun, and the other drives who are not up tight you know whats.
How did it take away interest from the racing???
If you wouldn’t make such a hoopla about it and how wrong and biased the FIA always is and how the mafia has their fingers on Max Mosley’s throat and all that childish, kindergarden bullcrap then people wouldn’t give a flying damn about it.
Now either watch the race and give us background information, OR EVEN BETTER:
Stop watching F1 already and safe us all from your idiotic, worthless, biased opinions.
this was predictible. it involves the worng cars. if it was mclarenvs force india the appeal would be overturned forget about that there wouldnt be a need for appeal because there would be no penality. FIA stands for ferrari internazionale Assistance.
i believe ferrari are financialy involved in the fia and this is why decisions are going ferraris way
can we all just shut up about the decision and the supposed bias and look forward to singapore?
What’s the point of having a permenent race director if he can be overruled by a triumvirate made up of a different set of stewards for each race?
One of the many infuriating aspects of this charade is that if Charley Whiting had told McLaren that Hamilton had not done enough to lose the advantage he had gained, Lewis would have given back the place to Kimi. Since Kimi then crashed out of the race, Hamilton would have won. As it was, they relied on Mr Whiting’s assurance that it was ‘Okay’.
I am not criticising Mr Whiting but if his opinion counts for nothing, why is he there? I thought the point of having a single race director who attends every race was to ensure consistency from one track to another.
This is clearly not happening and FIA make up the rules as they go along. Unless this changes I shall not waste my time watching F1 any more.
Why do the stewards have to intervene with the race?
Hamilton drove by the rules and no where in the rulebook does it say how far behind the car has to be once it has given back the place? Also how come the appeal was accepted at first and the race director said it was “okay” and now it has been denied in court.
Lewis has done so much for the sport and now the FIA are penalising him, Mclaren should have won the constructors title last year but they were cheated of that and now Lewis has been denied a perfectly legitimate victory.
The FIA are ruining their own sport by giving different results to what the public have just watched.
NOW ARGUE WITH THAT FERRARI!
well I feel sad for Hamilton, but on the other hand it does keep the championship exciting…
I mean what is there now to stop any of the top 3 drivers to give it all they’ve got? nothing… there is just 1 measly point between 1st and 2nd place, so noone can aford to loose now anymore.
I agree that the deciscion should have been made during the race… even if it would have been a wrong call, there wouldn’t be as much trouble around it like now. Plus imo the only correct punishment that they could give after a race is moving the car down the grid in the next race. That way the punishment is still similar, but it wouldn’t have this orchestrated feel to it all.
Finally I really hope that Hamilton gets it this year, he’ll have to fight for it now, but he has shown that he can do that very nicely on the track before, so I have good hopes…
Not only that, I also believe that he trully deserves it… after all he is driving like the true F1 hero’s from the ’80s -’90s, agressivly, sublime technique, and bravery… so far he, Kimi and Kubica are the only ones that qualify for a world title, because all 3 have shown that they know no fear…
If history repeats itself, Hamilton will this year’s driver’s title, and his rival will be stripped of their points, just like Villeneuve and Schumacher in 1997.
Is this really a drive through penalty? I can understand the ireversability of a drive through as it would have been difficult to accurately determine the outcome had the drive through not taken place. This happens to be a time penalty which could have been reversed as easily as it was awarded.
@ Gill
At last , someone with the common sense that knows the rules….i couldn”t have typed that any better .
the “pouncing on the ferrari lawyer” wasnt a smart move and was bound to provoke the judgement
If the appeal was tencnically allowed because it was a drive through then why did they make us wait so long and then go through the entire 2 day hearing before that was announced?
If it was agreed twice that the pass was enough to avoid penilisation why was he penalised at all??
FIA need to get the big fat interfering noses out once the race is complete.
The race on Sunday i hope is going to going to be as great as promiced and that the FIA don’t interfere and spoil it AGAIN!!!
Wats done is done, nothin we can do but i hope the FIA are listening to the fans and sort there act out !!!
From previous message, correction on the first line:
If the appeal WASN’T technically allowed ….
(sorry typo)
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Here is a good way to tell if the decision was truthful or not. If Hammy wins this year then, the FIA is a no good cheating mother – - – -, and if he looses it, then the FIA is a no good cheating mother – - – -, hahaha. Ok, ok if he looses it the FIA might be right. And I use that word “right” very loosely. Now race your rass (yes I typed rass) off Hammy and show them that they are bloody wrong.
Good luck!!!
F**KING IGNORANT ASSHOLES!!!!!!
SOMEONE KILL THE LOT OF THEM!!!!
That is a ridiculously stupid decision! It proves definitively that the F**king Ignorant Assholes are all a bunch of anti-Hamilton killjoy C**TS!!!
THE FIA CHEATS MUST F**KING DIE!!!!!!!!!!!
These blogs always go the same way. 10 or so people show their creative ‘brilliance’ by making some sort of crack at imagined Ferrari bias in the FIA by saying ‘Ferrari International Assistance’ or something similar like they were the first person to think of it, and anyone that supports the penalty either gets told to f*ck off or gets some racist slur.
Face it, Hamilton cheated, maybe not intentionally, but it happened. If Hamilton had followed the racing line like kimi, he would have had to slow down for the chicane and would have been several seconds behind kimi. By cutting the chicane and then only dropping back 10 cm from kimi’s rear wing, he gained that several seconds unfairly. The fact Kimi crashed later is irrelevent, just like if I bash some bloke and then later on he gets hit by a car and dies, it doesn’t mean I can’t get punished for bashing him, because the two events are independent. But thats been explained a thousands times and I’m sure that zealous fanatism of most Hamilton supporters will make all this text invisible.
Now as for the punishment, yes, ideally it should have been sorted before the race finished, but given how unhappy everyone is with their current decision do you really want the stewards to be making snap decisions with even less thought put into them? Given the event took place on the 2 last lap, that doesn’t give the stewards enough time to give a decision and for the drivers to serve the penalty. Its in the rules that all teams sign up for that if a drive-through penalty is given within 5 laps of the end of the race, then 25 sec is added to the drivers time. That doesn’t mean its not a drive-through penalty, its just that the process for satisfying the penalty changes. So the 25 sec penalty is still not appealible, despite the fact the car didn’t physically drive through pit lane.
McLaren appealed the decision, despite the rules saying its not appealible, so its McLarens fault that two days were wasted with the hearing. As for having a ferrari lawyer cross examine him, so what. The lawyer didn’t make the verdict, so where is it unfair?
Its good to see they made the right decision. But i can’t believe that Massa got away without a drive through penalty in the race before Spa when he pulled out in the pits.
glad to see nobody is taking this too seriously.
i won’t even bother with piersward’s blog entry.
it’s in times like these, you brits have a fine role model in graham hill. he would say “my, how unfortunate. well, we’ll do what we always do, persevere. care for another brandy? i know i do.”
so they spent the whole day listening to what McLaren had to said, but in the end all they could say was the appeal was inadmissable.
THAT basically proved the penalty was given out on VERY thin grounds in the first place, so they neatly avoided all that controversy…
it would never happen because… well it just never happens anywhere in motorsport because the FIA never admits anything wrong
hoppy said…
“Mclaren should have won the constructors title last year but they were cheated”
I’m sorry.. who cheated again? They were lucky their drivers were allowed to race for the championship still.
me great-everybody else-no balls
peace..
Ever since Lewsi Hamilton signed up for McLaren, the team have been constantly punished for an endless array of ‘Minor’ infringements.
Ferrari,on the other hand, could wade into the crowd firing machine guns and all they’d get is a £40 fine. Can F1 not see that the world has changed??
Do I remember rightly a few years ago Schu in a red car being disqualified some hours after the end of the race on technical grounds (plank worn too thin)? I thought at the time it was the FIA trying to engineer a closer championship, as Schu had a runaway lead and it was making it hardly worth tuning in on Sundays. It *could* be a similar thing here: the FIA trying to make it all ever so close and crucial on the track for guaranteed tense and exciting must-see television. Just that these best intentions appear to the world at large to be potentially biased? I don’t know, but it makes you wonder what’s really making the world go round – misguided out-of-touch old duffers or shady sinister, or even corrupt, wheeling and dealing? (See also the ‘no Silverstone GP beacause the facilities aren’t good enough but Donnington (a hut in a field) is – don’t tell me Bernie’s not got a very very good (£) reason behind this very thin sounding story!)
Whatver your opinion of recent events, you have to admit that F1 isn’t being done any favours. To cliche a little: the sport is the real loser.
Also – what we could really do with is a table of F1 events with column headings: Race, Incident, Involved driver/teams, Penalty applied (or lack thereof), Context (e.g. championship lead at the time). Then we could do some proper actual analysis of how consistent the FIA have or haven’t been over the years with their penalty givings, as things have changed (e.g. with the introduction of race director) rather than all this picking from our collective selective memories!
I would love to put this together but haven’t the time to do the data collection – anyone available? Better still, does such a database/analysis already exist somewhere? Ideal World Theory would suggest that the FIA themselves should use something like this to make decisions.
So Lewis got some points taken away i dont have a problem with that.Health and safty gone mad
I do wonder whats going on with the sport when Ferrari,are aloud to run over there own pit crew and there driver gets to start the next race .
FlA wake up
Right desicion, There is no way Lewis could had overtaken Kimi IF he would had stayd on course.
Massa for champion, he has best possible “wingman” on whole series! (unless Kimi doesnt do a miracle, again)
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/ en/headlines/news/detail/ 080924103718.shtml
This is Disgusting
Some people miss the point. The penalty for driving into the path of an oncoming vehicle in the pit lane is a drive through, or if it was near the end of the race a 25s penalty. The stewards found Massa guilty just as they found Hamilton guilty.
2 incidences that if found guilty have same minimum penalty of a drive through or if near the end of the race 25s added to the times. The only difference was one was a Ferrari the other wasn’t. The rules were changed for Ferrari, creating an exception. So when people say the decision was unfair, they are pointing out that one team receives special privileges.
Take a leaf out of IR, when the checked flag drops that’s the end.
What a load of crap. If Massa wins the championship by less tha 6 points I will be so angry. I see no reason why McLaren shouldn’t sue the FIA for gross miscompetence. I guess that Jean Todt and Stefano Domenicali threatened to put a video of Max on YouTube or something if McLaren won…
I have to say having watched the whole thing numerous times (including the fantastic in car stuff) I’m not so sure Hamilton was in the right, but I think it was a 50-50 call, another day, another race he might have gotten away with it and all the Ferrari fans would be complaining instead.
Ultimately, the championship will (hopefully) be decided on the track with no FIA interference. However, they do have a habit of making sure that a season has a close finish if they can help it, unless there’s a runaway winner. Does anyone remember Irvine being disqualified for illegal barge boards in the penultimate race in 1999 and that was overturned preventing Hakkinen from winning the championship that race? Or the FIA mucking about towards the end of Alonso’s first championship win? As Bernie always says F1 is in the business of entertainment, until that mission statement is revoked and the sport and competition put back on the agenda there’ll always be a slightly dirty taste with every champion. Schumacher was a money man’s dream fast and brilliant but with so maany controversial decisions going his way, it’s hard to feel that there wasn’t some behind the scenes FIA tinkerage to get what they wanted, same with Villeneuve, Hill, hakkinen and Alonso. Too much politics not enough sport.
Also does anyone know why a Ferrari lawyer was allowed to be present to argue against McLaren at their appeal? Are other teams representatives are normally allowed to be present at the hearings? or were there extenuating circumstances allowing this for this particular appeal?
Sameer said…
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/ en/headlines/news/detail/ 080924103718.shtml
This is Disgusting
no, it’s not. financially, $1M, or 500K pounds, is chump change to them. more importantly, they knew the appeal was inadmissible before they left spa. they were willing to pay this price in order to take a chance at recovering the lost points, but more so to simply not go down without a fight.
i think they made the right decision to attempt an appeal, and the fia was right to deny it. had the appeal been heard, i hope we can all agree it had some pretty terrible odds of succeeding, and i think that’s right as well. not because i’m a fan of this or that, but because the governing body should not reverse themselves every time there is a close call such as this. does FIFA use instant replay to review every play, constantly overturning the referee’s decisions?
i do hope the sport improves as a result of this, with clearly written rules enforced fairly and consistently by highly trained, regular officials. however, this remains a sport of human participants, and therefore prone to error. that’s fine, too. the last thing f1 needs is to become even more boring.
For all the mclaren fans believing the FIA is biased towards ferrari.. for even smaller mistakes Schumacher got wanked.. or even put in the back of the track.. Hamilton got away with dangerous acts in Monza, remember pushing trulli and webber off the track on tottaly wet gras? Gestures (fist shaking) to a slower driver in front of him even if he wasnt doubling him? And let us not forget that Mclaren has been performing poorly since 2000 (or even before) but a miracle has happened last year.. putting them on the front rows again (hmm after the spy-scandal, how odd). Ferrari has been fighting for the title for 12 consecutive years now, leading to rules changes and what not.. so please drop the act
Bonkers. Fact is; Hamilton let Raikkonen through after cutting the chicane/corner and a then, just (quite literally) a few corners later, Hamilton went off avoiding a BMW recovering to the circuit. Raikkonen spears through to regain the lead but throws it off immediately to let Hamilton back into the lead again to win. Therefore, despite the chicane-cutting nonsense, Raikkonen was presented with a clear opportunity to win the race but threw it away. And its all recorded for all to see. And, no, I’m not a McLaren fan. Or a Ferrari fan. And I don’t believe the FIA have a pro-Ferrari bias – although I do think (its obvious) they have a policy to artificially ‘balance’ the championship results to the end of the season. Why do the FIA feel the need to keep making their bureaucracy felt at every opportunity when its at the expense of why we tune-in to watch (the racing)? I suppose they can’t help being (largely) French…
While i admit i’m rooting to Lewis, i can see why the penalty was awarded. My thinking though is that if a penalty was awarded AFTER the race, it should have been a grid penalty, for the next race, rather than retroactively changing the times.