You don’t need to be a genius to guess the points of discussion in the paddock here. Choose any one of three incidents which drew the attention of the stewards. Whether they’re the sort of thing that the officials should be bothered about is arguably a more important question.
Two of these controversial decisions would not have been necessary if Lewis Hamilton had made a proper start and raised more questions about his ability to deal with pressure as the championship closes in. You could also argue that, having made a mess of his getaway, Hamilton should have tucked in behind Kimi Raikkonen instead of beginning his banzai dive down the inside.
But the question is not about Hamilton losing his cool or attempting to go racing at the wrong moment in terms of the championship. It is about whether the stewards were right to penalise him for the sort of thing that happens regularly. At the time, and in the light of suggestions that Hamilton is overly aggressive, I thought the stewards had a point. But now I’m not so sure. Well, not when the same penalty is handed out to Massa for appearing to drive into Hamilton on lap 2.
The problem is that the stewards do not have a more flexible tariff of penalties. A drive-through is the least they could apply, much the same as a 25-second penalty was the least they could give Hamilton at Spa when, in the view of many, it did not fit the crime. Of course, Hamilton’s drive-through in Fuji was largely irrelevant because, by that stage, he had been spun to the back of the field by Massa and was already out of the equation.
What about Massa scoring an extra point thanks to Bourdais being landed with a 25-second penalty for causing the collision as the Toro Rosso left the pit lane? It looked, from the only television angle available, as if Massa had squeezed Bourdais as they reached the first corner.
But the stewards reasoned that Bourdais had been given the flashing blue light at the end of the pit lane, warning of the approach of a car at 190mph on the track. The onus was on Bourdais to avoid a collision, even though they were both racing for position and the Toro Rosso had left the pit lane. Apparently, Bourdais ‘did not back off enough’.
How much is ‘back off enough’? And what is this doing to cramp drivers’ style and kill off adventurous spirit in motor racing?
the desicion against bordais is another shocker… no need and another subtle way for the FIA to help massa/ferrari get closer to lewis.
the stewards are getting to invasive and destroying the sport.
just let em race.
Please buy some dipers for Lewis.He def. needs them for the end of the championship.He’ll “drop few bombs” and spoil the title as always:)
Hamilton: Since when did drivers get punished for pushing each other off-track? Certainly not when Raikkonen did it to Hamilton at Spa, or even when Hamilton did it to Glock at Monza. Furthermore, Kovalainen seemed to be partly responsible for going off the track.
Verdict: No penalty.
Massa: Very similar to the Kovalainen and Webber incident at Spa, and received the same penalty.
Verdict: Deserved a penalty.
Bourdais: I’ve only seen the external camera angle on this, from which it looks as though Massa simply didn’t give Bourdais enough room. But I’d like to see Bourdais’ onboard before making a firm decision.
Verdict: Not enough evidence to convict
I think the decision has really heated up the title race, which can only be a good thing; however as much as I support Lewis, I feel that he is taking today rather badly, and people are generally feeling that Lewis has a lot of work to do if he has a chance of winning, completely overlooking the fact that he has the upper hand due to his 6 point lead. Mclaren and Hamilton seem to be trying too hard, they need to relax and possibly lose Hamilton’s points lead before they can win the Driver’s title. If LH calms down he has the championship in the bag and he is long due a 1st place
Goddamn right they penalized Hamilton! He drove Kimi right of!!! Without that retard move Raikkonen woudld’ve won, for sure. For the first time very angry on Lewis,
Right deciscion for penalizing Massa to, on taking Hamilton out. But ya, you get what you deservre.
Nice race btw, not the greatest excitement but very well worth the effort getting up for
Massa you know what you did and you should leaern to take responsily for your action
FIA are against mclaren
the blue flag means gtfo of the way, end of story.
As much as this will be received as sour grapes- the FIA are potentially more corrupt than the Zimbabwean government, Hamilton yet again is penalised for bugger all just because Mosely needs to be in Ferrari’s good books to ensure he isn’t driven out of F1! Absolute disgrace and if Hamilton doesn’t win this year then it will be down to the appalling behaviour of the FIA (the Ferrari Interests Association)
The penalty against Bourdais has clouded a great GP. Does he have to roll out the red carpet because a Ferrai is behind him and let them through??? Massa stopped 3 laps later for a pit stop so its highly unlikely that that incident affected his race being as he was still 10 secs down on Vettel at the end! Another FIA mysterious judgement!!! Anyway, well done Fernando, may the winning continue!
@F1Yankee: They were fighting for a position. It’s call racing. Just because it’s a Ferrari doesn’t mean you have to get out of the way.
I’d have to say that Hamilton did cause a lot of the chaos at the first corner, he’s most likely the result of all the contact that happened behind him, but getting a penalty was still a bit harsh I thought.
As for Massa, driving into Hamilton to keep his position as Hamilton was passed him completely with a lot of momentum for the straight, I cannot BELIEVE he got the same penalty for destroying Hamilton’s race. A stop-go penalty would have been a bit fairer on Massa, seeing as Hamilton received a drive through for what I would consider as being less of a an offence.
And OH MY GOODNESS in what way is Bourdais in the wrong?! Why would he have to give Massa the position when he’s come out of the pit lane in front, Massa has clearly spotted him and taken a wider line, but cut in a bit sharp on Bordais’s front left wheel and Bourdais gets a penalty?
Stewards still in Ferraris favour on that account I’d have to say.
I think the penalty for Bourdais was ridiculus he did nothing wrong, it was Massa that just drove into him. I say this and I like Massa, I also have nothing against Kimi. It was just something that happned, it is racing after all, or it used to be anyway. It wouldn’t be an issue if the FIA didn’t stick their nose in as usual to help Ferarri, the FIA are destroying the sport.
i think FIA have there reasons for penalising LH…which im fine with…i agree that his penalty is not fair in relation to massas penalty for taking him out… Massa should of got a stop-go penalty! and Jeroen, get a life, If you think taking another person out another person can be fair in anyway then please dont comment on RACING! hear that word? RACING! Also what about Massa performing that passing manouver over a solid white line? What if it was Monaco? as he said with the hamilton incident at Spa! The FIA made such a big thing of how the drivers can only use the race track! (between the white lines)
At first i was against the idea of a breakaway from F1 to another equal Formula….But now i think its not a bad idea…maybe we will see the boys’ get the opportunity to actually race!
Whilst accepting that Hamiton did not help the situation on the first corner I am perplexed by the Massa / Hamilton incident in Japan.
When clearly Massa was off the circuit why did he did he not have to ensure that he allows Hamilton to ‘regain the position’ (as Hamilton did with Raikkonen at Spa) ? I suspect that 25 seconds considered by Ferrari penalty was less of a ‘penalty’ to incur.
As the commentators said Massa seemed to do nothing to avoid a collision with Hamilton – it seemed to have overtones of Schumie (now Massa’s mentor) / Hill in Adelaide!!
On the Bordais incident that beggars belief as racing for position he would logically keep right to take the corner and Massa should have expected that and driven accordingly.
There was a situation where Massa overtook Webber but crossed in to the pit lane exit lane – was that; being off-circuit & gaining a position by doing so; also not a contravention off F1 rules?
This can only be construed, albeit controversially, as a manipulation of the rules to heighten the Driver Championship.
There was a passing comment that Jean Tott (spelling?) may have a future in FIA can only add to the rumour as to what ‘F’ stands for.
PS – Were Ferrari fined for the Pit Lane incident in the last GP?
I’m actually angry about the Stewards decision, Massa was clearly in the wrong and yet he gets the points.
Italians, corruption. Who knew?
Lol,the steward does have a point to punished lewis,he should have just tuck in kimi during the start of the race,provided if hes a better driver and had a faster car than kimi,i think he should be able to regain his pole,unfortunately lack of experienced,too overaggresive and wat he did dose can cause unnecessary accident at the back of the field cars.
A driver going so hard into turn 1 he destroys he front tyres is not a regular occurnace Maurice.
As a Massa fan, I can say both Hamilton and Massa’s penalties were fair, but the Bourdais one was harsh (personally I reckon they gave it out just to make him cry again)
Isnt there a penalty if you dont yield if you’re down a lap to the leaders?
If so, Hamilton got off easy on the last lap with Alonso.. (and it almost got nasty for him)..
in responce to f1yankee, why should there have been a blue flag, he wasnt being lapped, and why does massa deserve to be let through on a red carpet.
hamilton did deserve a penalty, although a drive through was way too strict, why not one of those pansy 10000 euro fines. Massa on the other hand,
1st. you cant drive into other people, because that’s war, not racing
and 2nd. the pass on webber, he missed the pit wall at 190mph by a foot, is that not dangerous driving?
another post
abhayjames, firstly you belong on the racism blog on the republican website. And secondly, raikkonnen was one of the slowest on the track
abhayjames, please dont bring your racist face back here again…. You the type of person that watches racing and thinks they know something! And atleast LH unlike FM can admit when hes in the wrong! I still cant believe Massa cant admit to taking out Lewis… its like Schumacher and the monaco incident and hill incident and so on and so forth! Just dont come here again if you gonna throw around insults based the colour of a persons skin….
confused spectator,
massa did not leave the track. 2 wheels were within the lines at all times.
as for massa/webber, i guess you could penalize both - massa for crossing the line and webber for blocking. how many penalties would you like to see in one race?
the driver, not the team, was penalized for the pit incident in singapore. i think the team was at fault, and should have been the direct taget of a penalty, not massa.
abhayjames, what the hell are you making racist comments for. You should be ashamed of yourself, I am not a Hamilton fan, I actually support Button so I can give an un-biased view of what happens at the front of the grid. Hamilton did make a mistake at the beginning and nobody denies that, it was actually Heikki that forced Kimi off the track and then Massa deserved his penalty. As for Bourdais he did nothing but be a racing driver and that is what we all want to see.
why have any penalties at all, lets just fit all the cars with plutonium rounds of ammunition and machine guns. Then hamilton can be first once and for all
Massa was off the track yankee…the kerb counts as off the track…and all wheels went over the white lines when he passed webber. And you can block another driver…but only once…Webber just blocked him in 1 long move…perfectly legal!
F1YANKEE seems to be making the rounds about his blue flashing lights and blue flags. I think this must be the first event he has ever watched and has got the wrong end of the stick. The blue light flashed when EVERY car was leaving the pit lane and I have just had it confirmed that this is to remind the driver that cars may be coming up the straight at speed. This is not to tell the driver to give way. That is what the white line on the pit exit is for.
massa twice got drivers unfairly penalised: spinning hamilton round, and then forcing bourdais into hitting him. Reminds me of some one I know…whats his name…Michael something, I think..
I wouldnt say that in here too loud catersam. I think there is an FIA meeting (Ferrari International Assistance)
i had respect for Massa…loads of it! hes an awesome driver…but after today i dont have any! Why cant he atleast admit to being in the wrong!!!1 for freaks sake! it was clear he took out hamilton!
f1yankee I’m with you -
the FIA isn’t cut out to do the job. They’ve penilised ferrari twice in two races! Is this corruption or what
(sarcasm)
I wish they would penalise Jenson. That means that they think he is capable of beating a Ferrari
roycelove??? south african?
Lets see why dont america or south africa have grand prix
Ah it is because the fans dont understand what they are talking about
actually, F1yankee is right, on track cars have the right of way. thats why there are huge blue lights at the end of the pit lane.
Because an American doesn’t know what a corner is!
HAHAHAHAHAH! sorry rich? what was that??? do you know where some of the greatest most historic F1 racing ever happened??? SOUTH AFRICA! kyalami! please shutup! you have no clue what you talking about! Its just unfortunate that SA is spending all its money on soccer and rugby at the moment… F1 should be back at kyalami in a few years as plans are underway to fix up the circuit and talk with the FIA are in progress… please…you dont know who you talking to so please dont make thick comments!
They have the right of way for safety reasons however if a car stays to the inside of the track which is where they have the white line they cannot cross then there is no problem.
Bourdais did nothin wrong
@internet, but how long would of bourdais have to wait in order to let Massa pass? the same thing happend a few times in the race, but other drivers seemed to avoid spinning themselves
Bourdais couldn’t do anything different. ANY other driver would have done exaclty the same!
FIA - Ferrari International Help
I agree there were some great F1 races in South Africa. It was a attempt at silencing the daft comments that some are leaving on this site.
tom, you bring up a good point. this year has seen penalties up the wazoo. too many, for all competitors, and it certainly has spoiled what little on-track action f1 has.
it isn’t easy. what clearly defines aggressive, and what is reckless? where is the line between normal racing contact and “causing an avoidable incident”? car crashes happen at car races. the fia seems to be moving away from contact of any kind, which is bad. it’s a car race, not checkers.
the biggest problem is inconsistency, not favoritism. the inconsistency of human judges observing human competitors. and inconsistency on the fans’ part.
once upon a time, the was a certain german driver that used everything under the sun to win, and the people shouted to the heavens that what he was doing was unfair, unsportsmanlike, dirty, dangerous and something must be done to stop this madness. so now, the governing body has decided to clean things up, and the same fans now say it’s discriminatory, corrupt, and worst of all, boring.
FIA - Ferrari International Assistance!!
There is a difference between going off the track yourself and being penalised because somebody else went off to avoid you and just pushing someone off the track. The latter is dangerous, the first is a racing incident
F1 is too sensitive!!!!! dammmit!!!! the only way to fight back is to be sensitive back! which is a real pity! And Rich, dont try silence peoples opinions again, especially with trying to put down South African motorsport, which is actually beginning to make some way, on Saturday i was at Roy Hesketh race track which was closed down, but now some guys have made a shorter version out of remaining parts of the track. There was even a Formula Renault driven by Cristiano Morgado lapping.
hahaha F1 yankee! please, now is the time to keep quiet, Schumacher took people out blantently and even stops on the circuit to stop other drivers out doing him in qualifying! he is a different piece of work whose luckiest thing to happen was sadly Senna’s death. Without Senna Schumacher had an less competition than that of previous years where men were men.
f1yankee that was almost poetic.
Agree 100%, still wrong about massa though
back on kyalami racing, watch this Dice, this is when drivers could race! http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=RrQWDj8jLbs
Im a fan of lewis hamilton. I admit the man likes to push his luck with regards to what is considered sportmanship but F1 would be a poorer place without him
however up until the last couple of weekends i have also admired felipe, but some of comments he has made in the media of late have not been up to his usual ideal of fair play and today he threw the fair play out of the window when he choose to cut the corner so he could hit another car rather than take the corner, which he was not out of control and could have done so. if that had been lewis, schumacher or Irvine he would have got a race ban
oh and james allen (the real tv one) is such a fool - if it had ended with neither lewis or massa scoring lewis could not have followed the ferrari’s home in the last two that would have potentially given massa 20 and him 12 - he would have still lost by a point - BBC do not pick up that particular contract - just martin and mark
so, this is obviously going to improve next year (or whenever it is) when Jean Todt joins the FIA… the ex-head of Scuderia Ferrari… oh no, hang on, that’s complete B*****KS! It’s getting harder and harder to watch F1, as much as I love it the ‘rules’, stewards and general runners of the sport are literally ruining it.
actually scott i used to watch royce love in bulawayo - there were so few cars they had handicap races. Maybe Hamilton and Massa tried that today but it didn’t come off ?
ah ok… his father john love hey? Royce lives close to me
Still no obvious heir to Schumi yet.
But with Lewis, Massa, Kimi, Kubica & Alonso all racing each other, in similarly performing cars, F1 is really quite good to watch.
The only let down is having the FIA make unfathomable decisions after the race has finished.
LET THEM RACE!!
“back off enough” is not ramming into a car that had already dived into the corner, to get the apex.
well a lot of people are suggesting that F.I.A really does stand for Ferrari International Assistance and i think that this latest stupid decision is just of that saying,
how can you penalise someone for RACING!! they are damaging the sport and i hope the F.I.A buck there ideas up soooon!!
James W - you are too kind to James Allen - the bloke’s a complete tool! i’d go further and say that Mark Blundell should not get a job next year as the bloke never won a GP (Unfortunately neither did a certain Mr M. Brundle, a fact i only discovered when checking the above) and therefore doesn’t really have a valid viewpoint from which to criticise the current drivers! The BBC commentary team should be Martin Brundle and DC with Ted Kravitz and Richard Hammond in the pit-lane. If James Allen or Mark Blundell get a job next year i’m definitely going to be watching with the 5Live commentary instead. And can we get rid of mandatory pit stops before someone gets killed! - Let the racing take place on the track and only on the track!
p.s. was i the only one to notice that Massa was nearly released straight into the side of another car again during Q3 on Saturday ( and it was Lewis as it happens cos if you squint hard enough the McLarens look a bit like the Force India’s so they obviously thought it was Sutil!!!)
hahaha. Ferrari Interests Association. couldnt agree more mcfcfraser.
Doppeltag
a fair point but hamster would admit he knows very little about f1. i’d definately keep ted and i would keep mark just because of the many occasions he drove with martin - the pair are a team that shouldnt be split. the second seat in the booth is a difficult one - i wouldnt go for DC, it needs to be someone with the fire like murray (the race he commented on on the gadget show made me laugh out loud). perhaps that motorbike commentator who sounds like his pants are on fire
fia against lewis full stop! cant believe they r doing everythung 2 prevent him winning bourdais was in a race for position. what is goin on with all these rules let racers race fairly!
. . . and not damon - if only to save him from himself - some of the stuff he says is genuinely mint but he’s going to get himself in trouble one day im sure
hahaa. Ferrari Interests Association. nice one.
and i’m really shocked about the bourdais penalty. i mean this in no biased way: that was massa’s fault.
oh and Doppeltag, having just watched that again, i think you’re right. you have a good pair of eyes on you!!
I see that the Ferrai Shoemaker School of F1 Dirty Tricks, newest students are doing well, and using every dirty trick that he has showed them, I am so glad that arogent man is out of the driving seat, shame his spirit is not fully out of the sport though.
I believe that if you are going to protest against all penalties but assume that the penalty that Massa received “did not fit the crime”, I think that’s hypocritical and it is a biased statement. I mean, you are “Maurice HAMILTON”. I think there is a reason for you to protest and complain every time Hamilton gets a penalty, and it’s the fact that he’s british. You should really think that not only british people reads this blog, and Hamilton is not a saint or a poor kid or anything like that. He’s a completely irresponsible guy when he’s driving, and his irresponsibility deserves a penalty.
i see your point José, but surely hamilton had already served te penalty by ending up at the back of the pack?
FIA - FIA is arseholes.
to be honest, i am sick of FIA is arseholes or whatever fixing the sport and i think that a new governing body is employed. It’s high time we had an unbiased race and every race is influenced by a drive-through or something. This then causes a huge uproar and people start saying that F1 aint worth watchin anymore cos Massa is a fixed title winner.
Hamilton has got to be a cheater or else he wouldn’t have so many penalties. This year he has had a 10 place drop at France, 25 second penalty in Belgium, costing him 4 crucial points and a drive through today for racing. Nobody has amounted so many penalties in a season so surely Lewis is driving on the line between cheating and not cheating.
WTH? Bourdais, Massa, spin, why? Cos Massa is a round faced noob (like a love-sick puppy of MS) who has been to the MS School of F1 Racing, as mentioned by BigPaul. He is the same as a nambi-pambi footballer who falls over his own boot laces and cries foul. He is a good racer, most of the time, as is Lewis.
The pressure is on them both. If I was Bourdais, I’d let Massa’s tyres down on his motorhome and blame it on DC, cos he’s offski.
If massa can’t win the title this year he is rubbish. He has had good pace, been helped by penalty decisions and also had some luck (France and Canada). The ‘offences’ lewis and bourdais committed were nothing compared to Massa’s dirty tactics but that’s F1 as Lewis said in his interview.
Penalty 1- Unfair, Lewis went for the pass and it failed, causing mayhem and another Coulthard first lap crash. If anything, the penalty should have been for swerving in front of Kovaleinen.
Penalty 2- Fair. Massa realised he lost position and decided to go for a cheap shot at Hamilton. He lost his cool and that lost him the advantage he would’ve gained in the title race as he would have finished around 2nd.
Penalty 3- Unfair. Massa should’ve been penalised. If you leave no room for your competitor, expect to be hit. Unfortunately for Bourdais, racing a Ferrari cost him dear and cost him 3 deserved world championship points.
Alonso was a worthy winner but once again, FIA is arseholes have caused a riot again over some controversies. This season is getting as controversial as 1994 with all these penalties and fixing allegations.
accusations i meant. Why drag Schumi the great into this, im sure he didn’t order Massa to run Hamilton off the road? That was just the heat of the championship getting to massa.
Someone should tell Robert Kubica to shave more often, seriously. This could improve his aerodynamics
Other than that - great race. Anyway, penalties - i like japanese people for various reasons, but today they were a bit too generous handing out penalties. I think noone should get any today, otherwise it’ll turn into some paranoia, where a driver instead of instinctively tackling an opponent will be thinking twice out of fear of penalties.
On another note - respecting Lewis’ skill, i think he’s a dangerous driver on the field. Dangerous to others, is what worries me most. Having pushed a toyota out of the track two races ago when he only passed it by half-lenght of his car, today’s “i’m gonna make up the place i lost at all costs” blunder - too much playing video games, where you can charge all you want and turn off damage. Get real, Lewis, there are people’s lives involved, if you need to kill someone let it be just you. As i said earlier, i hate penalties but then again - i believe this one could have been issued to kick some sense in this frustrated hothead. Massa probably got his to make things even. Bourdais was innocent though, he should be restored to the 7th place.
looks like the Ferrari International Assistance are at it again. i’ll say n’more
I dont think hamilton should have been penalized for their have been many races where someone in the pack makes a mistake and drives a few other people off of the track and i think being brought down 7 positions was enough of a penalty.Although it was a stupid move for Hamilton to try to cut in infront of Kimi. As for Massa’s penalty it was a really dirty move to due that to Hamilton but i think the drive through penalty was fair for Massa because it brought him down to about the same position as Hamilton. Just a shame it damaged Hamiltons car
the FIA are not against Lewis. They are against everyone racing Ferrari!
IF a Farrari dowsn’t get preference then they have to assist! Hence Ferrari International Assistance!
Massa is a good driver, not the best on the field. I am a HUGE Lewis fan, and as much as it is hard to say Alonso had a great race and is a great driver, he just needs to sort himself out when out of the car.
At last though! Ferrari have got rid of that stupid, cr@p light system and gone back to the lollipop. The reason why the other teams haven’t gone more technological is because the lollipop works and works well.
On the Boudais incident, as soon as the solid white line ends, you are racing again. Bordais had the inside line and was fighting for position. He was in every right to cover the apex and infact had nowhere else to go. Massa hit him and should be the one penalised.
I agree that Hamilton could resonably be given a penalty although in many other similar circumstances i dont believe this has been the trend. The first corner is often a mess and you dont see many penalties.
I believe Hamilton got passed massa fair and square and Massa compounded his error by carrying to much speed into the corner taking him deep for the second part of the corner. This means Massa needed to take less speed through the corner and had room to head for the apex under the breaks to yield the position at the cost of a few seconds. Instead he turns across the grass; at best to cut the corner, at worse a deliberate attempt to hit hamilton
I also believe Massa broke pit lane rules by crossing the line on his overtake. It works both ways and while cars exiting the pit lane cannot cross it, neither can cars coming up the stright.
The first two penalties of the race were perfectly fair. Lewis tried completely in vain to use his cold brakes way too late into T1 after ruining his own start with a poor getaway.
Then Felipe clearly used a section of track outside the white lines to attempt to repass and took Hamilton out.
Bourdais on the other hand, did absolutely nothing wrong in trying to defend his hard-earned position vs a Ferrari, the only person who should have been punished for it was Massa. Imagine it being two top teams cars - it’d just be called a “racing incident”.
I was happy about everything with this race until about Bourdais’ penalty, in all honesty I was embarassed to be a Massa fan, let alone an F1 Fan. It was a strong race for Bourdais, as him and Vettel (would have) scored good points.
As Martin Brundle rightly said, we’re in such a state that anything other than just cruising around the track is subject to penalty. I sincerely hope that with the complete change of cars next years yealds a new non-controversial but hard-fought championship.
On a side note, how much better would F1 be without Bernie Ecclestone and his hunger for money brought in from uninspring new race tracks? Think about that one.
Of the 3 penalties dished out to LH, FM & SB only the SB penalty is controversial.
He is not in the pitlane, he is not being lapped, he is not swerving across the track.
Why should he let Massa pass him?
Nobody else does this when they exit the pitlane.
Seems that Stefano Domenicalli or Luca Di Montezelemo put in a call to FIA (Ferrari International Assistance) headquarters to see if they had any spare 25-second penaulties/ drive-through penaulties left in the Mclaren box. They saw Kovalinen’s engine blow and felt a bit sympathetic towards Mclaren so they gave Massa a penalty as well.
Please Lewis, don’t let them get to you because the FIA are really pissing all of us motorsport fans off and they are ruining the sport we like so much. I went to see Lewis win at Silverstone and after seeing him win in such style he fully deserves to win this championship without some corrupt stewards get in his way.
(Sorry for any bad spelling)
ralph said…
Imagine it being two top teams cars - it’d just be called a “racing incident”.
if it were two bottom teams, very few people would give a damn, regardless of what the officials called it.
Thank you F1Yankee for bothering to post in this forum.
Lewis clearly doesn’t deserve to win the championship with his extremely childish and downright dangerous behavior on the track.
It’s actually quite funny, if McLaren hadn’t wiped Hamilton’s butt with Alonso’s face last year, they probably would have won both championships (Alonso would have won driver, McLaren constructor).
Instead, they end up with nothing, and Heikki.
World Champions in bad judgement…
Does F1Yankee work for the FIA?
@Simon: McLaren had already lost the WCC last year with 0 points.
1. Hamilton did 3 things in one go that are subject for penalties:
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
2. Fair enough, Massa caused an avoidable accident.
3. Very borderline. I think the long straight of Fuji may have big value in the judgement. Difference in speed is very high.
i like brundle and blundell.
Duffers said…
On a side note, how much better would F1 be without Bernie Ecclestone and his hunger for money brought in from uninspring new race tracks? Think about that one.
formula one mgmt (bernie) and the fia (max) have run this sport into the ground. bernie, through screwing the fans every chance he gets, and max by ineffective or counter-productive legislation.
do any europeans give a damn about races in bahrain, abu dhabi, et cetera? especially when it comes at the cost of other popular races? most americans sure don’t.
bernie charges so much to hold an f1 race, most races end up losing money for everyone but bernie.
teams, fans, and sponsors are very eager to race in both us and canada. now, there’s no north american races at all. manufacturers and sponsors would be more willing to spend money with a couple races over here to advertise with.
manufacturers dearly want tech rules to open up so they can use f1 as a lab to develop road car technology. racing improves the breed, after all. this would get board members to reach a little deeper into their pockets to fund f1 teams. however, for decades any real innovation has been outlawed, and we just have the constant refining of an f1 car with no real world application. the applicable term is “diminishing returns.” multi-billions spent, with what to show for it? aero doodads and a j-damper which will never go on a road car.
all this fuss about rules, enforcement, money, and abu dhabi might be all for naught. max has stated that if f1 doen’t go to a spec class, they will be out of business after 2009. bernie said all is well. the truth is somewhere in between.
me personally, sometimes i wouldn’t mind if f1 folded. i’d love for the same teams to join audi and peugeot in le mans racing, with leadership, integrity, and fenders.
Ernie Bucklestone said…
Does F1Yankee work for the FIA?
if i did, i’d have a damn race to go to :/
How on earth can this be true? Bourdais exits the pits, hugs the wall allowing Massa around the outside and when Massa cuts across and spins, Bourdais is PENALSED? This sport has long become corrupt. The sweeteners handed to Ferrari have become indefensible, do the stewards and the FIA think we are that STUPID? Well we are not. F1 seems intent on destroying itself whilst these idiots ruin races by changing the results after the race. F1 is no longer a race, it is a political slot machine, wired in favour of Ferrari.I have trolled the net tonight trying to find someone in defense of Massa in this incident and have found precisely none
F1Yankee,
Max says he has an opening for you,
if you need help he’ll whip you in to shape
;p
Internet said…
“McLaren had already lost the WCC last year with 0 points.”
Well… probably not, if they hadn’t pissed off Alonso
It seems the sterwards are penalising only the things that result in an incident AND incidents that include directly or indirectly, Lewis Hamilton.
RE: Bourdais vs Massa.
All day long drivers exiting the pits were given the flashing blue light but still fought for and in some cases won the battle to beat the faster oncoming car into turn 1. The stewards did nothing to any of these drivers. Bourdais had the inside line and could not see the approaching car. Massa had full view of the car and knew he was turning into another car.
RE: Massa drive through penalty.
There is no way that Hamiltons lap1corner1 lapse of cencentration/red mist incident warrented the same penalty of Massa driving into Hamilton lap2turn10. Would a 10 second stop-go penalty better punish this incident??
It seems that somebody somewhere has something in for McLaren and Hamilton and are punishing them/him as much as they possibly can at any given opportunity.
I am a massive baseball fan as well as F1. If an umpire is not calling strikes as you would expect, so long as they call the same strikes all game long, they are being consistent.
Formula 1 sterwards are being very INCONSISTENT and their decisions are affecting one of the best drivers titles in years.
Either be consistently good with decisons or consistently bad with decisions!! Not a mixture of both.
i am surprised by the Bourdais penalty, i would have thought it was a racing incident. Drivers exiting the pit lane have blue lights flashing if there are cars approaching and (i believe) required to give way. Massa only needed to be half a car width to the left and they wouldn’t have collided. 50/50 as far as i can see, so no penalty.
However, apparently this has come up in the drivers’ briefings, so maybe there has been a directive that is not yet public information.
Other than that, i thought that the Hamilton and Massa penalties were both fair. Maybe Hamilton and his fans could open their eyes a little more to realise that if you consistently put your car into harm’s way you will come to grief fairly regularly. And the stupid racists who posted anti-Hamilton comments based on his colour have no place on any sort of racing forum. Hamilton cracking under pressure has nothing to do with his colour or nationality…
And as for Massa’s pass on Webber, i would have thought (as an Australian who thinks Webber has been unlucky to not be driving for a top team by now) that Webber was probably lucky to avoid a penalty for forcing Massa off-track. He was a little naughty to keep pushing across once Massa was alongside him. No harm done, no penalty required, but maybe a dressing-down at the next drivers’ briefing.
Blue flag was given to Bourdais at pit exit lane for safety reasons, oncoming cars at 190mph+ .Although driving for position in the eyes of the FIA safety is of the upmost importance, bordais ‘did not back off enough’. Also I beleive the stewards penalized Bourdais in a show of fairness as Massa was given a penalty for making contact with Hamilton. You say were was Bordais suppose to go… Well where was Massa suppose to go when he hit Hamilton. They both should have backed off. Both these penalties were very fair.
Now as far as the idiot that is Lewis Hamilton is concerned, why on earth was he so hell bent on taking back position from Kimi. And his comment after the race, when he came back to show that sour face of his after storming out of the paddock. Really this is the kind of champion we will get out of britain. These kinds of instances show that he is not what great champions are made off. His penalty was also fair, although he may not have made contact with anyone he delibrately forced Kimi off the track and unintentionally a few others. This was unsafe, and as we know FIA is all about safety. Although this incident was not as bad as the one with Massa a drive through penalty was teh least severe penalty they can issue.
Far as I am concerned the best driver this championship has been Robert Kubica. Most consistent point scorer and very well driven, considering that BMW had stopped development of the car a while back. I know Bmw are not in contention for the Constructors Battle but I would love it if Kubica went to take the Drivers title, and wipe the smirks of the faces of Massa/Ferrari and Hamilton/McLaren.
Ernie Bucklestone,
i’ll have nothing to do with max’s “openings”
“Really this is the kind of champion we will get out of britain.”
If you don’t like Hamilton, fair enough. If you don’t like the british, piss off from our websites.
“If you don’t like the british, piss off from our websites.”
touchy…
did I say something to upset poor little insecure matt. Oh I’m so Sowwy. Poor little putty tat!
why dont you go and kiss Lewis Hamilton’s ass. I’m pretty sure he dropped a few turds in his pants today got get it while is still fresh!
Is it any surprise the stewards would give Hamilton a drive-through penalty as well?
I’ve been following the various penalties levied against him from the start of the season and it is quite obvious there is a concerted effort geared towards denying him the championship.
One question. Is it because he is black or British?
I cannot remember a period of penalties and bad decisions like this in my 35 years of watching F1.
Hamilton’s penalty ?
Looked like a late-braking competition that was lost by everyone competing in it - the losers included Kimi, Hamilton and Heiki. Heiki and Kimi tangled while Hamilton lost places to Kubica and Alonso.
I really see no reason for that penalty at all.
The Massa / Hamilton interface was pretty cut and dried, had it been the other way around it would have been a black flag and a couple of races ban. The punishment was pretty lame, Massa deserved more, ending the race - pretty much - for your title rival by cutting the corner and ramming him is really not in the spirit of any rules, except maybe banger racing….
Finally SB’s penalty was simply for hindering the progress of the World Champion elect…..
I also figure Webber probably though he was as far to the right of the track he could be so that Massa physically wouldnt fit, but no no no, he didn’t think about defending OFF the track! Imagine someone coming down the pitlane at that time! They’d be totally cleaned. And how ironic would it have been if it was Adrian Sutil
I’m a little teapot, short and stout.
LH: “Daddy, is there any button for extra boost on the steering wheel?”
AH: “No angel, just take a late brake, Ron says it’ll be ok.”
LH: “Copy that, thanks.”
This is just my wild speculation, but there could be some truth in it
At the moment theres all this talk about how F1 is boring, and next year they’re implementing new ideas such as KERS and the aero packs to make it more exciting. Do you think maybe that the FIA is intentionally being controversial just to make the sport a bit more interesting? Maybe they’re trying to close the gap between massa and hamilton so that we have an exciting end.
If Hamilton had his way at spa and Bourdais wasn’t penalized yesterday, there’d certainly be a bigger gap between Hamilton and Massa, and the world championship battle would be no where near as strong as it is now.
Its an ambitious concept, but to an open mind there could be some truth to it
Surely if Massa was found guilty of hitting Hamilton, causing the spin, instead of having a 10 second penalty, wouldn’t the more reasonable punishment have been for Massa to give back the advantage as Hamilton had got past him.
Would have made the race more exciting as well seeing two drivers race through the pack.