There’s been plenty of opportunity to discuss who’s fault everything was from the weekend, but over at Formula1.com they’ve put some video together from all the angles. It won’t change your mind, but it’s certainly worth a watch. The first corner from the inside is a particularly cool shot.
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Unfortunately no on-board shot from Bourdais. But I think it’s now indisputable that it was Kovalainen, not Hamilton, who pushed Raikkonen off the track.
And I don’t think Massa hitting Hamilton was deliberate, just very clumsy.
Agreed Hamilon was not involved in directly pushing Raikkonen off the track, but the mess his lock up caused, possibly meank Kovalainen ran wide, plus all the other carnage (i.e. Coulthards shunt).
I dont think Massa was clumsy in hitting Hamilton, the footage shows he was not in control of the car, and Hamilton took advantage as any aggressive racing driver would, and closed the door on Massa (Naturally). Massa still fighting for control then hit Hamilton.
With regards to the Bourdais incident I still can’t get my head around why Bourdais was penalised, Massa is definitely in the wrong there.
Kimi seems to move right first to try and stop the move from Lewis, then tries to turn in for the bend but cant as Lewis has over cooked it and is in the way…. then Kovi seems to follow along and means Kimi has no choice but to keep going straight…
The whole event however is clearly triggered by Lewis, and anyone that has ever raced knows about the strange occurrence that when the car in front makes a mistake everyone else seems to follow.
That was all Hamiltons fault, just live with it.
Agree that Kovalainen bears greater responsibility for pushing Raikkonen wide.
Seems that Massa put two wheels on the grass to actually avoid hitting Hamilton, failed obviously but Hamilton was going for the apex so Massa needed to go for the apex minus one car width.
Can’t understand people blaming Massa for the Bourdais incident though, seems to be public opinion that when Hamilton went round Massa, contacted and spun, Massa’s fault. When Massa tried to go round Bourdais, contacted and spun, Massa’s fault.
I think he probably thought he’d cleared Bourdais, peripheral vision in those cars looks non-existant really.
If anything the penalties were at least consistent, if perhaps a little unjustified.
I think it actually makes Bourdais penalty seem just, not just an attempt to closen the championship, as from the onboard with Massa it looks as if Massa has passed him on the straight, then Bourdais sort of comes back and hits him.
Also Massa was closer to Hamilton than initially thought from the onboard, but still fair. Hamilton’s penalty was also fair.
The Bourdais penalty seems wrong from what I can see. Massa was so much faster should have passed SB in a safer place.
I understand the Lewis penalty but when was the last time somebody got a penalty for a first corner mistake?
I think the first corner incident was very lightweight compared to the usual offencable incident…
Hamilton locked up, which was a mistakwe, but unintentional, and it was actually Kovelainen that pushed the ferrari’s off.. I dont see Hamiltons fault there, but thats just my opinion
Hamilton was very optimistic, and caused a bit of chaos, but when was the last time somebody was penalised for causing a first-corner mashup?
Second incident – Massa made a mistake, Hamilton took advantage, but Massa was on the grass with no way to control his car, so no particular blame.
Massa v. Bourdais – Bourdais was clearly well within both his and the car’s limits, tucking to the inside round the corner. A serious brain-fade moment from Massa. Should Massa be penalised? Bourdais certainly shouldn’t!
Finally, why on earth have the stewards suddenly decided to penalise for every `racing incident’ that happens? If they’d done that earlier in the season, Coulthard would have had nearly as many penalties as races…
it’s cos it’s hamilton. if it was massa or anybody else, they would’ve got away with it.
Serves lewis right for trying to win the championship and beat Ferrari. Everyone knows you can’t do that.
if anybody can just cool theirselves down, maybe just to a sensible amount, it is quite clear that all three penalties were just.
Schumi does take risks when THE incident would directly affect THE champ. But Hami does it almost all the time.
One must grow up to be a true champ. That includes the ones arguing Hami ‘locked up’ in the first corner – He pushed both KIMI and Kov out of their lines. no one would be penalised for locking-ups.
From those angles it looks like none of the penalties were particularly justified.
They were all just racing incidents.
The stewards have just shot themselves in the foot in light of all the penalties they’ve given previously this year so need to be seen to be consistent with their decisions. Which means continuing to penalise people for no real reason.
Racing incidents caused by the removal of traction control and ABS type tech (see where massa/lewis tangle, they’re both drifting round the corner before)
Massa could have let Lewis through untouched as he’s at just as much risk throwing a championship away
Bourdais penalty???? what a joke.
Watched the video, it’s almost like Massa is suprised to see him there on contact.
Ok based on what we’ve seen to date here are 3 new rules for the next race:
1.do not brake too hard – you might be penalised for “causing an unavoidable accident”
2. make sure to give way to cars exiting the pits – or you might be penalised for “causing an unavoidable accident”
3. In relation to racing a ferrari (or a mclaren)- see rules 1&2 above & then prepare to be penalised for “causing an unavoidable accident” anyway!!!
Note: The above rules are subject to change at any given time either whilst approaching,entering into or exiting any chicane,corner or other part of the circuit you may happen to be on.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooo1
The footage clearly shows Kova pushing Kimi off track but there’s no question Hamilton was reckless. Massa was clumsy not deliberate but deserved his penalty. Massa was technically ahead of Bourdais as they approached the braking zone so it’s difficult to call.
If we’re going to have penalties for every incident like these then fine, just be consistent and fair. However, we’ll end up with races where drivers are scared to overtake in case they make a mistake and get penalised.
Watch Kovalainen turn into turn 1, but then just decides to turn the steering wheel and slow down near massa and raikonnen
Massa clearly was not in control of the car on entry to the corner but when he does gain control, he steers straight into Hamilton (on purpose)!
It’s not Hamiltons fault he locked up, he cant help it but it was definately Kovy who pushed raikonnen off.
So if hamilton did not directly, but indirectly caused KR to go wide then he shouldn’t get a penalty for directly pushing someone wide. Kimi should have braked or something. Besides, Hamilton didn’t deliberately try and take out the field, his wheel locked and he went wide accidently, that isn’t deserving of the same penalty as someone who deliberately hits someone or runs them off course.
did anyone notice bourdais almost pancake into vettel right after the start?
good thing he has great reflexes or that could have turned into a big one!
having followed Heikki with my cursor, watching the footage, i can conclude that although Lewis may have had a bit of smoke around his tyres when he was driving beside Kimi, yadda yadda yadda, Lewis pulls awayin front of Kimi and Heikki “taps” Kimi off the track.
i don’t really see the need for a penalty, despite the fact that Heikki DID shove Kimi off the track A BIT. but if i had to give a penalty to anyone, it would have to be Heikki.
this isn’t me being biased or anything, it’s just the way that things happened and the footage clearly shows it from many different angles.
ALSO, if Lewis had have pushed Kimi off the track, we would have seen it from the on-board camera.
Hamilton had no chance of making the corner, he’s lucky all he got was the drive thru, if Kovy, Kimi & Massa hadn’t reacted in turn there would of been an almighty pile up.
Massa for the title, he’s driven superbly all year, without the team mess ups in Hungary & Singapore he’dbe 15 points in the lead not 5 behind.
I am a huge Hamilton fan, but i agree his start was on the aggressive side, but it IS the first corner and it seemed like Kovalainen impeeded Raikonnen more than Hamilton did. Massa did a obviously desperate move in a corner HE screwed up on his own. Poor Bordais. I never liked Bordais, even in Champ Car, but you got to feel sorry for him. He was fighting for a position and just because Ferrari was involved, he gets penalized. The F.I.A. needs some serious help to create a wider array of penalties as well as being quicker on the dealing of them. We could really see the effect of this with Rosberg at the spectacular Singapore GP.
Its amazing seeing the flat patch on Hamiltons tyre after the lock up.
OK: Hamilton’s too aggressive?? Is there a way to be a RACING driver and NOT be aggressive?? (Senna/Prost/Schumacher/M ansell were never aggressive eh??) Fair play to the lad for there is finally someone with the balls to go for it… Excitement is what this sport has needed for a while and he’s providing it (shame the stewards are messing with it)
Massa’s collision with him was not deliberate (I think!) but was definitely misjudged. His fault.
As for the Massa/Bourdais incident, it seems people are forgetting one important thing: whether or not Massa had technically passed him on the straight, he was fighting for POSITION and was therefore ENTITLED to keep the inside line. He wasn’t being lapped. Massa was obviously so used to the STR’s just moving out of the way he just thought “Sod it”. The stewards decision is as baffling as it is annoying…
To Boo:
If Massa has driven superbly all year, then how was it (after the first three races and spins/collisions) why was it looking like Ferrari wanted him out?? In came one M Schumacher to help him with the lack of traction control, and he started improving. Although he forgot EVERYTHING “the great one” had told him at Silverstone (another fantastic drive
)
First of all I’d like to mention Massa scored 2 points to Hamilton’s 0 and it’s good for the show.
I don’t think Hamilton pushed Kimi off but he caused everything else at the back of the field, so the penalty was given. That was understandable, but not Massa’s one. It was similar to Kimi and Lewis in the closing laps of Spa, except that Felipe had either lost control, or was trying to avoid Jarno Trulli.
As for Bourdais’ case, it was a racing incident. Massa was entitled to do what he did but Bourdais was forced into him. The stewards decision was most certainly wrong but it’s good for Massa and Mark Webber (who scored his 100th point)
Now we have Shanghai this weekend and let’s look forward to that
To Mosis
Maybe Schuey or even Hakkinen could give Lewis a few pointers on not overdriving
At the end of the day, it was Kovalinen who hit Raikonen not Hamilton, therefore penalty to Kove.
It was Massa who panicked, ran wide and then T-boned Hamilton while cutting a chichane(sounds famliar), therefore penalty to Massa.
It was Massa who panicked again, tried to get passed Bourdais as he exited the pits thinking he was racing him when in reality he was racing Webber and Vettel further back and just lost it, therefore penalty to Massa.
These are the facts…irrefutable…pure and simple.
So why then, is it that it didnt happen like that? The FIA needs to wake up and rub the Ferrari red from their eyes and start treating ALL teams and drivers fairly!
Here’s another very real possability. What if the FIA doesnt want a black man winning the title?…they punished and penalised him and the team last year for nothing and they are doing it again this year. Makes you think, after all look at the SS trooper who is running it…
Interesting.
But you’re right, it doesn’t change my mind. Massa still should’ve got a stop & go for that. And I still didn’t see Bourdais touch Massa…
paulom, in fact everyone, please just stop with the racial suggestions. If there can be a black president of USA – probably the most ignorant country in the world – then there can be a black F1 Champion.
The FIA have got really pedantic recently because they worry about their image (and by worrying too much are worsening it constantly). I’m not ruling out corruption, but I am ruling out high-profile racism in the 21st century.
The main reason for the chaos – which most people seem to have overlooked – is that it took a hell of a long time for the grid to form up and then the red lights were on for the longest time i’ve seen in ages! Combine this with the fact that the track temperature was 22 degrees c and the air temp was only 16c meant that by the time the front two rows of cars got to the first corner their tyres would’ve been cooler than a polar bears backside! No wonder they all struggled – Hamilton would’ve been suffering the most (with the resulting lock-up) yet didn’t hit anybody but still got a penalty! Good job the FIA aren’t biased!
We,the F1 fans,want to see exciting races,overtaking,mistakes etc. The FIA banned the electronic aids and then expect the drivers not to make mistakes? If drivers are not allowed to make mistakes we will see very boring parade laps instead of racing. Should they drive around with a FIA rule book to make a decision. Ofcourse there must be rules and penalties for unfair or dangerous behaviour but there has to be the opportunity to let them race and compete on the edge and make mistakes. Drivers get penalised for racing now and that’s not good for the sport at all.
All three just looked like racing incidents to me. The only one that looked like it can be penalised is Massa hitting Hamilton – he’d screwed up on the corner but gunned it to fight against Hamilton when he should’ve tucked in behind. Just seemed daft and unnecessary.
Massa completely ignored the Torro Rosso when the Bordais incident occured – careless but certainly not punishable for either, especially when the culprit span anyway.
The first corner would’ve been avoided had Hamilton not tried to overtake and just overcooked it. There have been far worse first corner incidents, I can’t see why a punishment was needed – he spun shortly after anyway didn’t he? I’d love to see all of the careful first corner driving in China…
I love that the F1 site put up the video as if “proving” that the decisions were right, yet not allowing any comments.
whether you like Hamilton or not, you have to be some sort of idiot to think that he was at “fault” for making Kimi go off. WATCH THE VIDEO! It was HEIKKI who “forced” Kimi off. come on!
and to say, “well Lewis caused it all” is complete childish babbling. With that kind of logic you can say, “well Lewis caused Massa to tangle with Bourdais because Lewis got spun out by Massa on lap one and if that hadn’t happened Massa would not have been near Bourdais later in the race.” Sounds crazy? So do you!