Is it just me, or is it strange that Flavio Briatore has signed Nelson Piquet Jnr at Renault for another year? Or is it not so strange? Maybe it’s not so strange at all.
I usually get too deep into figures in these blogs, but don’t panic, this one has only one figure: 0.513. That’s the average amount Nelson Piquet Jnr qualified behind his team mate Fernando Alonso during the season this year. Over half a second. That is bad. The final tally, head-to-head, was 18-0. Oops, there are another two numbers. Sorry.
Of all the team-mate qualifying battles in 2008, it was the only 18-0 on the grid. Even David Coulthard
managed to outqualify Mark Webber twice. The next closest were a trio of 14-4s for Rosberg over Nakajima, Trulli over Glock and Hamilton over Kovalainen. Utter, utter domination of the rookie by the Spanish master who never surrenders. Even for a rookie, Nelson is poor.
Perfect team-mate for Alonso, then? Yes indeed. Reckon that was a stipulation for Fernando renewing
Bill's stats. He's been busy
his Renault contract for another two years? I can imagine Fernando saying it: “sure, I’ll sign for two years, Flav-Baby, as long as I get to race alongside Nelson. He’s rubbish and a lot different to Lewis and I love him the most.”
But surely it’s not good for Renault as a team? Nelson only got to the final qualifying top-ten shootout twice in 18 races, while Fernando did it 15 times. What a contrast! That’s why Jamie here on the topgear.com team reckons Nelson will be on some sort of performance-related contract. I’m not so sure. I think Renault knows it won’t be fighting for the constructors’ title and is happy to put itself firmly behind Alonso. And that means giving him a team-mate who is shat.
Agreed. Retaining Piquet Jr. based on performance can’t be the reasons behind the deal. Simply because it’s not there. I was surprised he wasn’t relegated to a test seat at the very least.
It would be sad to think that there is any truth behind the idea that because he has shown to under perform he is the perfect team-mate for Alonso to shine indefinitely in the team and on the track. It’s incredibly egotistical and childish… then again it is sort of “Alonso-ish”
A performance based contract would make the most sense. A shape-up or ship-out incentive to not drive like an amateur in Formula 1. His driving all season reminded me of Narain Karthikeyan and his embarrassing stint at Jordan.
Im not sure but I think Flavio is Piquets manager. The main problem is if you blow your first chance in F1 that could be it. No point devaluing your own driver.
Plus the Alonso thing fits nicely.
maybe he was drunk and watching classic F1 clips and sum bloke came up at 2am and woke him and asked “are we signing nelson piquet again?”
“YEAH?! ISNT HE DEAD?!!”
“…uhm, no sir?”
“do it.”
the worst part of it all is how Piquet Jr. insists on people calling him Piquet, with no Jr. at the end.
if i had the chance to speak with him i’d say, “Well, your father worked very hard to bring greatness to the name Nelson Piquet. Um, things like winning races, championships, and generally seeming compitent to be an F1 driver. And your record so far is doing nothing but bringing embarrassment to the name Nelson Piquet. So until you do things like win races and the like, you should stick with the “Jr.” part, so there is a clear distinction between Nelson Piquet the former world champion, and Nelson Piquet Jr., the “also-ran.”
i hate to be a critic, because i hate critics in general, but it just ticks me off how Jr. can get upset with people for calling him Jr.! earn the name!
i’m sure even his father would say, “Um, yeah, you have some improving to do, my son, so let’s stick with the “Jr.” so the public doesnt get confused!”
and to those of you who complain about Lewis being brought up with a silver spoon in his mouth: at least he showed greatness from the start! Piquet Jr. had the same silver spoon treatment, not because he displayed the potential for greatness early on, but because he’s Nelson Piquet’s son. he’s who you should be complaining about!
at least Nelson’s lent his team mate an eyebrow plucking kit… http://img219.imageshack. us/img219/9489/alonsominu sibrowskd8.jpg
sure, piquet jr is a pretty poor race driver (as if i would be any better), but this is really no different than mclaren: top notch driver, plus some dead weight. put both heikki and nelson in matching crap cars, and i bet heikki would be only marginally better. put button, kubica, et cetera in a mclaren and he’s a title contender.
i guess a bit of realistic perspective is to much to ask from mr. thomas
Piquet has always been fueled heavier than Alonso. These times don’t mean anything.
piquet is to slow for F1 and if Renault want to win a constructors title soon, they need to get rid of Piquet.
Marcus, I believe Piquet Junior actually calls himself Nelsinho Piquet, so no need for the Junior at the end.
The qualifying stat isn’t exactly fair, none of thos other teams have a double world champion vs a rookie.
Look at his race pace, other than some very rookie errors he did improve over the year. I’m not saying he was good, he did make an absolute meal of some of his races, but his bad results seem to be exaggerated when he is talked about.
I think there were enough good signs there to keep him on for another year.
Another year, more experience, developed pace and in a car which is competitive from the start, and you may well be changing your tune.
The problem is Hamilton has re-set the expectations of rookies.
I can not see anything strange about renewing Piquet’s contract. He is a rookie, all rookies make mistakes, in fact I would rather have him rather than Nakajima in the grid at least the former has some presence in the weekend.
Not all people are “Lewis Hamilton” or “Ayrton Senna” in their first year. Nearly all people need time to learn even me and you, put yourself in his shoes, I am sure you will not like people to pass judgment on you as quickly as we often do. But the strange thing is that they renew his contract for two years.
It is better to renew with Piquet rather than having a new rookie that will go through the process of learning all over again…. Give Piquet another chance and let us see what he can do.
All I knew of Piquet Jr. before F1 was that he was pretty dominant in A1 GP, Sky’s low-powered alternative to F1 where each team is a country rather than car and stimulant drink makers.
He doesn’t seem to have made the transition well, much like Sebastien Bourdais, 5-Time Champ Car, er, Champ. Maybe F1 cars aren’t very easy to drive if you’re used to something else…
re Internet:
“Piquet has always been fueled heavier than Alonso. These times don’t mean anything.”
it is only in Q3 where they would need to put in their race fuel load, and Piquet only make it twice into Q3…
Piquet’s season has been very poor – Look at the slating Heikki got from Flav last season… Piquet’s been far worse and they’ve re-signed him… Crazy.
Saying that though he is usually not far off Alonso in practice and he gave Hamilton a bloody good run for his money in GP2 so maybe he’s got more talent than we give him credit for?
Liam – you also forget the role the drivers play away from racing the cars. None of you guys know what sort of impact Piquet is having away from races, in testing/development and other duties the drivers have. Even personality wise, if he’s a good fit for the team and Heikki wasn’t, that would explain the difference in Flav’s opinion of them.
What can one say?
Sign Nelsino again? To crazy for words.
I really don’t know his impact on team & testing but in the races, he’s crap. Indeed, even for a rookie.
Kimi Raikkonen came in 7th in his maiden race, in a Sauber for god ‘s sake! Ron Dennis – don’t like him especially but he’s got an eye for telent – practically immediately signed him as Hakinnens’ follow up racer.
Rosberg: dito, 7th, in his maiden race, in a Williams. (Why is he still there btw? Everything in his drivingstyle spells W I N N E R – so switch seats with Heiki please,…he’ll give The Hammer, Iceman, Alonso & Massa a run for their money & champion tittle)
I feel a bit sorry for Nelsino because you just see he wants it so bad and he’s trying so hard….but alas…
I’d understood it if he was resigned as test driver… preformance related contract would make the most sense…
Maybe indeed he needs another year of maturing but c’mon…even without Hamilton raising the bar for rookies it was very, very poor.
And I didn’t even mention Sebastian Vettel, Heidfeld or Kubica. Or Jeson Button (who, when given a decent car, is always in the upper regions, remember?).
No for serious I’m telling: never before was a F1 grid so loaded with supertalent (that’s btw why no one won the championship by marging I think in 2007 or 2008: there’s simply way to much super-talented-drivers.)
The only thing that’s a shame is that they are not all of them in a car that measures up to their talents, or that their places are taken by drivers such als Nelsino & Heiki…
Perfect mate for Alonso?. Don’t know what you mean.
Maybe you forgot Alonso is two times world champion?.
Can you really think he is affraid of having a more competitive team-mate?.
… I understand, you’re thinking about the Alonso’s McLaren season, when he could have won a third championship if the FIA and his team have allowed it.
Come on!
He did manage to get a podium though….
if you want to see Piquet’s talent, look back to Japan. He was very consistent, at one point closing down raikkonen and kubica. he was not far off alonso that afternoon. remember De Cesaris (Crasheris) or Patrese when he started at Arrows. The first Piquet had a tough first year in the late 70’s. These are hugely experienced drivers and you cant write Piquet off. For sure he needs to deliver this year and im sure he will or i would question his position in the team.
It makes absolute sense to sign Piquet again for all the reasons you mention Bill. Also, there is always the chance Piquet will actually come good in which case they would be better off when Alonso leaves. There’s no guarantee any of the touted drivers would perform any better.
His qualifying may not be brilliant, but that will come. Since Hungary, when the Renault really started to become competitive in races, Piquet has driven some pretty good races. Ok he spun out a couple of times, but at least it shows he’s trying. He was flying in Fuji – 12th up to 4th on pure race pace? Pretty impressive. The fact that he’s teamed up with the best driver on the grid didn’t help him but I think he deserves to keep that seat for another year.
will piquet be any better next year though?
If the theory that you shouldn’t try rookies and instead stick with the guy who’s already there applied, Piquet wouldn’t have got the seat at Renault in the first place.
The comment about fuel was corrected by someone else, so that’s good. He was in Q2 10 times throughout the year (the count was Q3 twice, Q2 10 times and Q1 six times) so those Q2 times are with the car bone dry. If we look at the average of those, it’s .365sec, still bad.
I just think that even a Rookie should have shown more pace than Piquet. I’m not saying they shouldn’t sign him again, because they’ll have their reasons, but I’m keen to point out that he was way off Fernando’s pace, by more of a margin than you might have thought. I’m wondering about young British guys like Paul di Resta, looking at Piquet’s seat, and thinking…
Choosing to look at just the qualifying times isn’t showing the whole picture though is it. On a few occasions this year he’s shown very good race pace, namely France, Hungary and Japan. He’s also shown to be very competitive in the practice sessions. He seems to have good speed over longer runs – qualifying may be an issue at the moment but that can be sorted out.
Look at Nick Heidfeld – for the majority of this season Kubica was destroying him in qualifying, but Nick still managed 4 podiums and a decent points haul and ended up not too far behind Robert in the championship because of his excellent race ability. Piquet didn’t get a great load of points and span out a lot but that’s sort of to be expected of a rookie. Massa wasn’t impressive at all in his debut season but look how much he’s matured.
A drivers place in the team isn’t entirely based on his qualifying performance. A number of drivers have had issues with qualifying this year where it hasn’t been a problem before, apparantly due to tyres – Heidfeld and Raikkonen are the 2 that spring to mind, whats to say Piquet wasn’t having similar issues?
Sorry Dan, but I think it was a poor season, even for a Rookie, and it’ll take more than your arguments above for me to think otherwise. Yes, he had his competitive moments, but he’s supposed to – he’s a Formula 1 driver. And yes, there are other reasons for a driver to be re-employed. It helps that he’s managed by Briatore, and it helps that his name is Piquet, and as I said in the blog above, it helps that he’s slow and therefore very much subservient to Alonso. I’m sure Piquet has potential, though, and I’m looking forward to him proving me wrong next year. If he doesn’t, he’ll be gone.
I’m comparing qualifying times because I can’t be bothered to go through every lap of their respective seasons, and it’s difficult to judge when drivers are caught in traffic. It’s also difficult to go back and analyse race performance and race craft. Though I suspect you’ll find the difference in pace is similar. There were plenty of errors from Nelson, too.
I don’t think the comparison with Nick Heidfeld is valid, either. Quick Nick is a lot better in the races than Piquet – admittedly because he’s more experienced – and he wasn’t too far adrift of Kubica in terms of lap time in qualifying. He also out-qualified Kubica five times, while Raikkonen out-qualified Massa six times.
As per usual, I’m trying to stimulate a discussion with this blog, especially with the last word, ’shat’. I don’t actually think Piquet is ’shat’. He’s in F1, so he could never be that. I’m just quite keen for other young guys to be given a chance to shine, too.
Bill, need a crash course in using spreadsheet programs? saves you an average of 0.513 weeks in calculating that average of Alonso vs Piquet :p
This reminds me of a few seasons ago when Flav dropped Trulli – another baffling driver decision linked with Alonso being in the team.
My personal intarweb conthpiracee is that Alonso is extremely specific on co-drivers and doesn’t like anyone challenging him – hence the dropping of Trulli in 05 (I think?) and the retaining of Piquet Jr this year. Could be complete tosh though – who knows what goes on in Flavs mind, he has a pretty good track record, so must have good reasons?
I think the most complete young driver is Rosberg – excellent engineering background, great with the media and an extremely professional racer. I hope Frank can provide him a better car in ‘09
)
Agreed Bill about next year. If he doesn’t deliver, he should be out. He certainly has the potential though. It’s a pretty sensible decision from Flav though – lots of new rules next year, potential shuffling of the grid and consistancy in the team is a big part. All of the other alternatives – di Grassi, Bruno Senna, Grosjean etc would be a bit of a risk with them all being rookies. Had someone like Barrichello not been offered a drive for next year then he may well have been snapped up by Renault. Piquet is probably the only viable option for the team at the moment. I personally hope he steps up – I like the guy and think he’s got good load of talent – he gave Hamilton a run for his money in GP2 anyway…
What baffles me more is the fact that Sutil will probably keep his seat next year. He’s had about 2 or 3 fairly good drives over 2 seasons and has struggled to keep in touch with a Fisichella who is many tenths down on when he was at his best.
Alonso’s not scared of any teammate. I’m sure he’d beat any teammate they throw at him.
Lets remember who Alonso’s teammate was when he won his two world championships…Fisichella not exactly a blisteringly fast driver either.
According to the pole on the F1 site alot of people think Alonso will be fighting for the title next year and although Nelsinho might not be challenging him i think he is the perfect driver to back up Alonso, they get along well and he has alot of potential, i expect to see him on the podium often next year.
Fisi was fast when he was younger, but he was already a bit too old when he finally got a competetive seat at Renault. A shame really, he is a very likable guy.
But back to this Piquet-thing, i really dont think its that strange that Nelson kept his seat. Sure, he had a crap season, but its nice to see him get a second chanse, i still have a bit of faith in him. Maybe he will suprise us all.
He will not be as fast as ‘lonso, that is for sure though. But nobody else is really either, except for Kimi. Lewis and Felipe are also just as fast, but only on clean tracks, when they are running first.
Don’t forget Vettel. That boy is insanely steady and fast. I think it’s just the fact that we have people like Hammy and Vettel that make Piquet look bad, when perhaps, Piquet is actually performing what a ‘usual’ rookie will perform.
PIQUET SUCKS BIG TIME, but then again perfect team mate for Alonso.
bill thomas,
thank you for continually participating in the discussion. i’d like to see more of that from other writers, if possible.
The matter is that if you want the driver’s tittle you need to concentrate on one driver. IF you don’t then you loose. Hemilton and Alonso last year by a point, Massa this year by a point. A strong driver with a weeker teammate = driver’s championship. Two fast drivers = constructors championship (see Ferrari this year).
Alonso gets a lot of stick that he picks teammates to be weaker. But what is Kovalainen in a Mclaren?
I believe Picquet will be better this year. Give him a second chance to learn from the best (Alonso)and drive a car developed by the best and i thing he will be a good support driver.
If Piquet does a good job in a support role and Alonso gets a seat at Ferrari for 2011, Renault may reward him by giving him a shot at a championship (if they’re still competitive) like they did with Irvine in ‘99.
By “they” I assume you mean Ferrari?
In the run up to F1 Piquet had impressed me a lot, his second GP2 year especially – although he was beaten by Hamilton the final result would have undoubtably been a bit closer if there hadn’t been some reliability issues in the Piquet Sports car.
From the information I’ve read about him he is very in touch with the engineering/set up side of things, which I would guess is a big boost for the team.
I hope next year he will be a bit more on pace, perhaps a year of just testing took it’s toll on his race-craft, there’s potential there.
I think it has a lot to do with Alonso not liking a competative team mate. He was used to having useless Fisi as his no.2 in 05 and 06 and got a big shock with Hamilton in 07. Alonso wants all the spotlights shining on him and not on an upstart co driver.
However, Nelsinho may still come good with practice, as will Heikki (we live in hope!)
no matter what they do in the back, lewis is still the best. although he needs to stop giving me a heart attack when he wins the world championship. I’m terribly sorry for my english, because, like my screen name suggests, I am a Flying Dutchman.
PS seems like F1’s gone retro… another piquet, another senna… And Hakkinen has returned!
Piquet Jr. is the luckiest guy on the planet! He’s possibly the worst driver I’ve seen in F1 (apart from Yuji Ide)! The only useful thing he’s done all year is crash in Singapore & let his team mate win!