Is there anyone else out there really very much looking forward to the clash between Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber next year? It’s one that I’ve been thinking about for the last 15 seconds. Webber will finally be put to the test by someone with a proven track record, a proper charger.
His team mates throughout his career haven’t been absolutely first-class. At Minardi in 2002 he was up against the not-exactly-meteoric Alex Yoong, then Pizzonia and Klien at Jaguar for the next two years, both easy meat.
Then he had to raise his game a bit against Nick Heidfeld (and Pizzonia) in 2005, which he did, outqualifying them 15-4. Then it was the rookie Rosberg the following year, followed by Coulthard for the last two.
Now it’s Vettel for 17 races next year. Shall we have a little wager on the qualifying war? I’m going to play it slightly safe and say 10-7 to Webber.
I’m basing that on him knowing the car and team better, being unbelievably rapid in qualifying, and that Vettel was out-qualified by Bourdais six times last year in the Toro Rosso.
I rate Bourdais very highly, but I think Webber will give Vettel a harder time. Anyone care to disagree about my 10-7 to Webber prediction?
I’ve got to say Bill, that I totally disagree! I think Vettel’s really going to find his feet next season and will be in fire for both quali and racing. I think Mark’s going to be made to look as rubbish as he is.
I’d go for 12-5; Webber and Trulli really are the qualifying stars. _IF_ the car’s good, I’d predict Vettel will get more podiums and more points but I’d back Webber to score points in more races (and maybe a podium in Monaco, where he’s at his best). In summary: I think Vettel and Webber is one of the very best combinations in the field next year with all the car changes – an experienced car sorter, a young charger who keeps it on the black stuff, and both drivers scoring points regularly.
I think that Vettel will have taken a backward step in moving to Red Bull, just in terms of raw performance.
The secret of his pace last year was the Ferrari engine i think – and also the team setting the car up to best use that.
Unless renault get the Red Bull’s engine really properly sorted, i think he’s going to be fighting Toyotas and Williams next year, instead of McLarens.
Vettel’s excellent, but no amount of technique can make up for an engine that falls short.
I have a feeling that we’ll be seeing a lot more of Vettel this coming year, although I don’t think that his car will pose any sort of threat to Ferrari or McLaren… I’m going to agree with Bill’s 10-7 wager on Webber though, as he’s generally the more consistent driver…
Vettel/Webber is a great combination though…I don’t expect too many podium finishes, but I don’t think there’s much that’ll keep them out of the points…
I predict 18-0 to Webber. For absolutely no reason whatsoever, I want Vettel to get hammered so he’ll stop looking so chirpily happy. F1 is a serious business, boy! Stop pretending like it’s fun…
I disagree with you Marty. The score is going to be 18nil for Vettel. That kid next year is going to be class!
i reckon vettel’s pure class, a real talent and i said all last season i wanted to see him in a more competitive car next year… but i also wanted webber too coz i reckon he’s one of the most underrated drivers in the field.
I agree with Klaus
at the minute Toro Rosso to Red bull does seem like a backward step. Ive been very disappointed with Red bull recently as I expected more from a Newey car.
I predict qualifing to be about equal, but Vettel to have more points at the end. Thats if the car can finish some races.
Being a proud australian, I think Vettel is going to destroy Webber next year. And finally all of the Webber hype in Australia will disappear (it’s slowly been fading for years). Webbo is just lucky he didn’t take that seat he was offered next to Alonso in 2005, he would have gone the way of Fisi.
Webber and Vettel in similar cars? Just like Hamilton and Alonso were in McLaren last year! Maybe Vettel has a slight edge
Its a very good question! I think you have made a very accurate prediction there. But I do think Vettel will come out on top in terms of race performances. It will take Vettel a few races to settle but when he does, I would not rule out another win for him next year. Vettel in my view is the best driver on the grid and will be a future champ.
vettel can drive far more better than webber and also many other drivers as he hassled lewis in brazil.
While I’m a Hamilton/McLaren fan, Vettel could well win the ‘09 Championship – it’s in Bernie’s interest… so don’t be surprised if a few “Stewards’ decisions” favour Vettel.
I was thinking about it too. I can’t wait to see them race together
I think the two will be quite even. I do think that Sebs’ move is the right thing for him. Many people are mentioning the problems with the Renault Engine, however, you may not be aware of something.
Aparently Ferrari and Mclaren exploited some loopholes in the rules. Renault didn’t realise that these loopholes were there until two months before the end of the season. Just at the point when Fernando starting scoring points.
For this reason, I wouldn’t worry about the Renault powered car. It’ll be working just fine. Webbo and Vettel are a fantastic pairing and will be great for F1.
Vettel will crush mark webber..
What a line up. i hope red bull can do a better job than last year and get the best out of the renault engine.
Webber 11-6 Vettel
Anyone else wonder why Bourdais the seven times (i think) world champ in champ car (the america version of f1) is finding f1 as hard as he is?
I think Webber is very worried, as you say his team mates up till now haven’t exactly been great and Vettel is going to show him as the 2nd level driver he really is.
I also think it will be a shame if STR dump Bourdais,I think he will really shine next in his second year, and anyones better than Taku Smasho
don’t forget Justin Wilson was his teammate in 2003 aswell when Pizzonia got fired. I have to admit that Webber did a great job there, smashing his teammate, who beat him to the 2001 Formula 3000 Championship.
Alex Yoong i know is not so meteoric but a better sight to watch than JAMES MAY TOWING A CARAVAN on the M5.
Sato should be put in a wardrobe labelled DANGEROUS RACERS and never be let out unless he promises not to kill anybody.
im a toro rosso fan and i was gutted seeing vettel leave i bet he is aswell since the turn around they had it wasnt only down to berger asking ferrari for an up to date 056 v8 but also they have been setting up the car better then the a team id say its a big step back for vettel i think dietrich matterschitz should back toro rosso fully instead of the a red bull team because theyve got the right ingredients to be succesful as for the qualifying battle id say vettel will edge it 14-3 and he will score more points in races
Dont underestimate or slate Webber, he is a nice guy, and a quick driver. But so is Vettel. Its going to be close, but i think Mark will just edge it.
why didnt mclaren get vettel instead of kovaleinen??
Webber will beat Vettel, Mark is 1 of the best driver’s in the field, but he is the unluckiest racer I have ever seen. Singapore being a perfect example, he would of finished 2nd or 3rd if the gearbox decided not to try and select 2 gears at once.
Oh, and have Honda confirmed their driver line up for next year yet?
Hey Marty, I like your point of view, but I can’t help liking Vettel.
11-6 Vettel.
Webber is a good qualifier, but Vettel proved to be a tough cookie. Somebody told me he qualified 1st once… in the rain. Not that I believe that, but still.
@ Catersam,
McLaren did go for Vettel but Dietrich Matterschitz and Ron Dennis couldn’t agree on money terms so McLaren looked elsewhere towards crapper drivers like Heikki
Vettel aint as good as he looks.
In these rain drenched races where he does well, ive got an explanation for his pace.
You see, in Japan 2007 (the big eye opener) Vettel was driving with a wet weather setup whereas evrybody else were on dry weather setups expecting dry weather on race day.
In Italy 2008, you have got to say he and Lewis Hamilton were in a differnet league to evrybody else but the edge Vettel had over evrybody was he had the wet setup unlike many others who expected a sunny race.
In Brazil, in the closing stages, he was so much faster than anybody else because Toro Rosso had a wet weather setup (a genius decision in such an unpredictable forecast)but Massa, Hamilton etc had dry weather settings.
Dont get me wrong, Vettel is one of the best talents for years and i seriously think he will win multiple championships but i think what he has shown that he has a better brain than most in Formula 1 and this, coupled with the drives i expect him to turn out, will propel him to heights of Formula 1 only Schumacher, Lauda, Fangio, Senna, Prost and Brabham have been, 3 time or more world champion.
17-0 for vettel!
17-0 for vettel! go anonymous. who knows?
9-8 to vettel i’d say…mark just has such bad luck and vettel has such great speed and always seems to be able to get a half decent car in the mix
i think vettel wil out qualify and out race webber by quite a way… but what i really cant wait for is a few years down the line… i hope he gets a maclaren seat next to lewis. i think he has it. brllliant driver
if vettel did better than webber in an inferior car wat would make you think he would do worse in an equal. safe- 10-7 vettel gutsy- 12-5 vettel
I agree with Klaus; I think it’s a backward step for him.
Maybe he can ask to go back? It was really great for the sport to have a talented driver in one of the up-and-coming teams, now it’s just going to be a mediocre procession of McLarens and Ferraris as I doubt the Renault engine has the guts to take the fight to them.
I like Webber’s attitude to the game, but will hedge my bets on Vettel.
Even though next year the teams’ values will be partly re-shuffled due to those regulamentary changes, I reckon Vettel is going to have a much harder time with Red Bull than with Toro Rosso.
Until yesterday he was clearly the sixth faster man in F.1, faster than Kovalainen, as we could see. In the meantime Red Bull struggled to have a decent pace, especially on sunday. We also saw that together with BMW, Red Bull failed at improving performance at the end of the season, while Toro Rosso had definitely done the best work, just like Renault.
So, Vettel has been a marvellous driver in a car that suited him perfectly. Will he be just as good as so far in a honestly low-rank car?
I’m afraid not.
That’s why I foresee a better season for Webber than Vettel. He managed to do great with that Red Bull, he was often in Q3 and scored lots of points, so he can do in 2009 too. On the other hand, I’m afraid Vettel will have a poor season.
No doubt this is Webber’s biggest test in F1 so far. I think he’ll rise to the challenge but I can’t call it either way, so I’ll say 9-8 to one or the other.
i’ll take 10-7, but the other way around
have you not seen the Brazilian GP?
As much as i like Webber, i think he will be completely outclassed by Vettel next year (i hope I’m wrong). Webber will start the year off well, maybe out qualifying Vettel in the first couple of races. But once Vettel gets settled in with the “new” team he’ll dominate.
I think you’r talking absolute nonsense, Vettel in his very short carreer in the formula 1 he managed to pull his first victory at the Monza circuit, and he happened to play a very good role overtaking Hamilton at the last laps, while Webber, well he will play as a good pilot i must say, every one in f1 is, but not as the german child
think iit pays to remember that webber does seem to be hamstrung by the most extraordinary luck. he could have won japan 2007. he had a shot at malaysia 2004 in the jag. monaco 06. someone in the F1 group of gods isnt a big webber fan, vettel? his potential is unquestionable. a future champion. i think we could see a brilliant team there next year if reanult get there act together with the adjusted freeze and newey designs a car so good you would think it was designed by…….well, newey. 10-7 to webbo.
PeterMann said…
While I’m a Hamilton/McLaren fan, Vettel could well win the ‘09 Championship – it’s in Bernie’s interest… so don’t be surprised if a few “Stewards’ decisions” favour Vettel.
crying a year in advance? well done!
In reply to Jenson Button to win, No one expected a dry race at monza, it rained ALL WEEKEND they were sweeping out their flooded garages! And he was running extremely low downforce.
At Brazil He wasn’t running a wet setup, he was running high downforce, and he showed Lewis who’s boss.
if he’s only good in rain, why has he qualified multiple times in the top 6 in the last few races? Why does he hold the valencia lap record?
My predition:
Vettel 10
Webber 7
10-7 is a fair if what conservative estimate if you think it’ll be Vettel who goes 10 up.
Stats are one thing but Heidfeld actually got right up Mark’s nose and I think having raced with Grandpa Coulthard for the last 2 years Mark is going to play catch up the whole year.
One other thing… Vettel is exceptional. Cannot see a chink in his armour yet
Vettel will demolish the overrated Webber. Good qualifier but an atrocious racer who always goes back during the races. Webber doesn’t seem to hold up to pressure, in Silverstone where he was expected to have a good result, he spun out on his very first lap. Vettel on the other hand has done more than Webber over his short career.
Honestly, until Vettel gets in a good car, he won’t win the world championship. When was the last time somebody in a midfield car won the championship. If he stays with Red Bull, he may actually win eventually or come close because Red Bull are a team on the up.
I think that whilst people rave about the most exciting driver in a long time (since schumacher), there is another German, Nico Hulkenberg, who has been labelled the next Schumacher. He is managed by Willi Weber and is the current F3 Euroseries champion (won by Lewis Hamilton, Paul Di Resta and 2nd for Vettel), Williams Test Driver at 17 and a former A1 GP champion with Germany. If he gets a break similar to Vettel, we may be in a German battle for the championship. Don’t count out Lewis Hamilton either and it could be World War 3.
I’ll agree on the 10-7, though my money’s on Vettel to be the 10. With most of Webber’s 7 coming at the start of the season. Vettel will also I am sure out-finish Webber as well.
Vettel really impressed me at the Race of Champions last year, helping Germany to gain the Nations Cup (and if I remember correctly winning the deciding race), that cold December day decided it for me that he will be the one I support in the future.
Am looking forward to it already (134 days and counting!!).
that long
Webber is awesome but so unlucky. Vettel is looking like a great driver too. Adrian Newey is a genius. Surely Webbers luck has to change, Newey’s genius shine through, and all of us get treated to two top drivers battle it out! Webber 11, Vettel 6. Red bull in top 4 constructors.
F1Yankee, I don’t get this crying either… but look at the bright side. If the stewards are busy helping Vettel, they will leave the rest of the field unattended… so we will watch proper car races!!
Haha, you gotta love conspirancy lovers.
vettel is gonna kick ass! seriously – he won a race in, to be frank, a fairly bad car. the heighest position webber finished in was 4th. i agree he qualies quite high, but vettel is going to give him a hard time..
Highest Webber has ever finished is 4th, that is unbelievable, never on the podium!
Vettel however has had something like 4-5 4th and 5th posistions, and has already got a win. IN ONLY ONE SEASON!!!
Decide who is beter!
Vettel-15
Webber-2
Vettel is the new Schumi(Go Schumacher, my hero)
and Hamilton thinks he is the new Senna(maybe a bit of arrogance, but you can’t deny at top form he is unbeatable)
I see lots of good battles to be fought between the two.
I am half German, half Iranian, and live in England.
webber has had 3rd at the 2005 monaco gp and the 2007 european grand prix.
Vettel has been in F1 for 3 years and raced in 2007 and 2008
Both drivers are excellent and I wish them both well and look forward with anticipation to the new season.
I want Webber to win but think Vettel will take it… If going from A-B on one journey no stops. No doubt Webber is master. But at this level, being able to calm and slow yourself and the vehicle down, in order to preserve vehicle and tyre wear is paramount.
One good grid position does not mean any points if you push to the limits and blow engines, gearboxes and tyres.
This is all bye the bye however and following Hamiltons last run I believe he is the next Schuey or hopefully better, perhaps an English Mr Stuart!
Good luck lads, ps why don’t we see women or common blokes in F1???
Oh yes like cricket and rugby union it’s not the best but who can afford to play… any thoughts?
Given that Vettel had the significantly faster ferrari engine and suspect aerodynamics on the Torro Roso car which is now under investigation, Webber’s experience and tenacity should merit that he gets the job done over Vettel around 11-6
Vettel is going be on fire next year.
He is going to be a problem for everybody not just Webber.
Have you noticed that since Jeremy mentioned “Eyebrows” when Lewis was on TG, Alonso has cleaned up his eyebrows, and there is also a ‘clean’ gap between them!
Toro Rosso and the red bull ARE THE SAME CAR just a different engine
Poda nai payale
Yer…
)
it’d be my guess that this will be one of Webber’s last seasons, after getting beaten by Vettel.
People saying Webber is underrated so often, that he’s imo now overrated – especially in qualifying.
(ps im aussie too
My god, reading all of the majority of the above comments just indicates how little most of you understand F1. Mark is ONE of THE best drivers out there. Results haven’t been forthcoming purely due to the car and circumstances. It’s been oh so painful for Australia to watch Mark’s equipment or luck dive. His race craft is even better than his qualy pace. Vettel’s honeymoon in F1 is over, and I’m fully expecting Mark to really hurt the young German’s reputation.
But Jesus, it still hurts to think that Mark chose Williams in 05 over Renault. That still hurts me when I remember that…
I’m absolutely not agreeing with the fact that Mark outqualified Heidfeld.
If you only look at the stats, you’re right, but you have to realize that in 2005, with no change of tyres, some drivers, like Mark, preferred to try to make a good qualifying, even if there was a risk to have problems with the tyres during the race, and some drivers like Nick who were only focusing on the race. There was also the fact that Nick had, in many occasions, more fuel onboard than Webber.
To be fair with Nick, you have to remember that before his accident that prevented him from doing the last races, he was ahead of Webber in the drivers standings whereas he was not lucky (accident with Schumacher in Australie, broken engine in Bahrain and Canada, and mechanichal problems in Germany and Turkey).
I know Vettel was in BMW before Torro Rosso, I meant his first full season.
And sorry about webber best 4th place, I was going by information in a post above me.
That was in reply to jenson button to win!
12-5 to Vettel
And If Red Bull make a very good car, we cud see Hamilton Vs Raikkonen Vs Massa Vs Kubica Vs Alonso Vs Vettel for the championship… that would be fantastic for F1.
WHAT ?? Vettel is waaaaaaaaay better than webber and he,s only starting AND he won more than webber …. wich is one time
i’d say 11-6 Vettel
Devil, i absolutely agree. I think that it would be a fantastic battle for the championship but i doubt Red Bull can provide the sort of championship winning car McLaren or Ferrari have until at least 2010.
I have to agree a championship battle like this can only be good for the sport. It would be the best championship battle ever. But i doubt it will happen.
I thought points are given for the classification of the actual race and not qualifying.
Mark Webber surprized me on the beginning of his career in F1 with his qualifying laps…until we figured out he was always running extremely light.
So I won’t agree or disagree with you for qualifying.
But one thing should be a safe bet: Vettel will have better race results than Mark Webber… I personally think that Webber is overrated… Yeah a good driver but not championship stuff.
Vettel on the other hand is!
If Red Bull fuel the cars evenly.
Webber is 185cm tall and 75kg whereas Vettel is 170cm and 60kg.
Who do you think will have the better ballasting arrangements for better performance from their car.
Is there anyone who would like to change their prediction???
Bill, i agree with some of the posters above here, Vettel will leave Mark WAY behind him.
Webber has THE most rotten luck I have ever seen in a racing driver, what this man needs to do to get it all going in the right direction along with the luck to make it happen I just don’t know. There have been some times where Webber has gone painfully close to a supurb result, al la that rain soaked effort in Japan where if my memory serves me correctly he was taken out by one S. Vettel though I will probably stand corrected on that one. Why he stuck with that rotten Williams I just don’t know and I think with Newey designing the car and Renault pulling their finger out they both will push each other pretty hard. Can’t wait!
Webber is going to be found out at last. Vettel going to give Lewis a run for his money if car any good!!!!
I think it will be more like 12-5 to Vettel. Did you not see Monza ‘08?! He was unstopable and that was with a crappy car. Next year, with an equal car to the rest, and a McLaren engine, I believe he’ll be up at the top with Alonso and the likes. He’ll devinetly finish ahead of Webber all the races that he finishes. The fight between him and Webber will be nothing. If Vettel was going into 2009 with Webber at the top of his list of competitors, that would be the worst move of his career.
I think that Sebastian Vettel should have gone to Maclaren, he is a good and upcoming talented driver, and the present Maclaren team is just one man team, with Lewis’s teamate who is just crap im afraid, and with literally all the team behind Lewis now, he was bound to fluke it and win this years title, there are many drivers better than Lewis in F1, half of these guys are in average cars, hence just dont have the power to compete like Button and Rubens, Hamilton just got in a top car from the start of his career with him being Dennis’s home grown boy, andreally should have been made to start at the bottom, and then we would have seen how well he fairs, and i doubt he would have got on the podium at all let alone win a race! personally i think that F1 is just not the way it use to be like the eighties and early nineties, all we have now is boring processions after the first lap of the race. These comments are true and impartial, and alot of people would agree, I enjoyed watching Mansell racing, and he was good, and a worthy champion, but Hamilton is just not.
This post is barely following the thread but I was just looking at the 2009 F1 cars on another website and I am in shock. 2009 will be known as the first year that drivers like Webber will purposely lose so as not to be photographed next to the ugly beasts they are being forced to drive.
Vettel is the man. but how did he accept to move to the less powerful car? i hope renault have a solution to their engines coz i want to see vettel be a champion
Webbers experience and maturity should stand him in good steed against Vettel. Hope that Red Bull can work out their problems and train a pit crew that allows Webber a chance, and stops having 4 stop strategies for Webber when everyone else is on 2 !!!!!!!!!!.
I’d say Vettel will put in better results than Webber who has had an unlucky career in F1 including the bike charity accident a lil while back!
I doubt we will see any real performance from either of them, but I think the potential of Vettel is right up there, as it is with Webber, the poor bloke just can’t keep it together on race day, and it’s heart breaking to see it happen to him time and time again! He is a good Aussie and has my 100% support, I reckon it will go 12-5 to Webber.
I think it will be a very interesting cotest. Marks’ mental frame of mind will be extremly concentrated following his convalescence. This added to his experience will make him very quick, especially knowing that he has a young, proven speedster snapping at his heels.
Webber will finally get the chance to prove himself against a fancied teammate. Vettel will not dominate like a lot of n00bs think.
Webber has been a victim of circumstance, while Vettel has benefited from it. They’re both great talents and it’ll be very close, but anyone who says Webber is overrated or that Vettel is a wunderkind hasn’t followed either careers very closely.
I’m with Jamer. 12-5 to Webber
what can you say now…