I’m so fed up with this post-race rule changing. It was confusing enough that Lewis Hamilton got promoted to third after the Oz GP finished, but now he’s been disqualified.
The disqualification centres around that Jarno Trulli overtake. Jarno went off the track while the safetly car was out, and Lewis passed him.
The confusion begins when Trulli then repassed Lewis – was he let through, or did he overtake? It would appear that McLaren told Lewis over the radio to let him pass, but then told stewards after the race that Trulli overtook.
So McLaren and Lewis have been disqualified for not telling the truth. It’s not hard to see how McLaren would get confused by what to do in that situation, but lying to the stewards isn’t going to do you any favours.
Well, exactly no favours in fact, as Lewis and his team now have no points.
What I don’t get, is how a decision could have been made last weekend without all the evidence, how Toyota could decide there was no point protesting, and then for the decision to be changed anyway.
And because of this, they’ve now undone the 30second penalty against Trulli and given him third place back.
I’m a massive F1 geek and I find it frustrating, so what my mates down the pub who aren’t that into it are going to think, I’ve no idea.
UPDATE 2: Now have a read of this transcript on Autosport of the radio chatter between Lewis and his team, or listen to it.
UPDATE 1: Have a read of what McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh has to say, via Autosport, then have a listen to this. It’s Toyota’s radio during the final Safety Car session.
It is sumwat confusing.
Had Lewis not let Trulli past then no doubt that the FIA would have found some way of penalising him.
Absolutely ridiculous! I love F1 but you can damn well see why it isn’t as well followed as football can’t you?! You don’t get results changed in football retrospectively when something becomes apparent to officials- say someone admits a goal was a handball that won a game after the game- they wouldn’t change the result, all that would happen would be a debate- not such a bad thing! FIA on the other hand would disqualify everyone within twenty feet of the incident for not seeing it and reporting it, an absolute joke and they have managed to begin ruining this season earlier than they did the last- sort it Moseley its becoming worse of a joke than your private life!
now all St. Lewis fans can start conspiracy theories, but the simple truth of the matter is that he lied. that’s all to it.
Its annoying yes, but if McLaren told Hamilton to let Trulli through and then appealed it, then for me they deserve the disqualification. It sounds as if they were trying to get the Toyota penalised to be fair, and therefore deserve disqualification. The stewards should have sorted it out at the weekend, but it seems that McLaren didn’t give them the full picture of events. In all, its just another example of how much politics go on in the backgroudn at a race weekend.
If what you (Jammie) say is the truth, I have absolutely no idea why the h*ll mclaren lied to the steward and why anyone would do that at all? Just say it like it is???
Nice start.
“I’m a massive F1 geek and I find it frustrating, so what my mates down the pub who aren’t that into it are going to think, I’ve no idea.” –> JAmmie, MY THOUGHT EXACTLY!!!
It’s fair to disqualify Lewis. It’s not the first time he is setting up his competitors on the track in this or similar manner. He did it in Suzuka in the rain behind the safety car. It was deliberate and calculated. Shame on him. Same for McLaren, those lying weasels are at it again, same old tricks. No wonder they can’t work with an honest straightforward guy like Alonso.
Hamilton had told Speed TV after the race that Trulli went wide onto the grass at the second to last corner.
“I was forced to go by. I slowed down as much as I could. I was told to let him back past, I don’t know if that’s the regulations, and if it isn’t, then I should have really had third,” said the Briton.
As the climax began to build up at the start of this season, I was really excited about the prospect of a year without all of the controversy that has unfortunately become such a familiar part of F1 over the past few years. With things like the spy scandal and everything else going on, it became very clear to everybody that this kind of publicity is very damaging for the sport and it’s reputation, and I don’t know about everyone else but I got the impression that the FIA had opened their eyes and seen the light! That they had finally realised this and were going to do something about it. I mean, all those rule changes to make the sport more exciting to the public audience… and then they go and do this! I love Formula One, I always have and I always will but this kind of control over the sport is killing it. Not everyone will be as faithful as me and no doubt, this will push a yet more disgruntled fans away from the sport.
first of all, I have no idea what happened but I know this is not justified, give Trulli back his place if this is true but it is not grounds to disqualify Hamilton. Lieing is bad but it is not grounds for disqualification. And there is lieing and stretching the truth. That part of the race was not shown so I do not know what happened and thats probrably why the FIA can do this crap.
Post race penalties should only be used in the most extreme situations.
And if Hamilton did slow enough that Trulli had to pass, since Hamilton did regain speed the rules say that Trulli should give back the place, it doesnt matter if it the drive infront’s fault as far as I can tell.
Give Trulli back the place if the FIA got it wrong. I’d also like to point out that the FIA had all the evidence the first time round and honestly, its too late now. This decision is full of BS and should not stand.
F1 is getting stupid and petty and it’s only the first race. It’s just that Lewis used the wrong phrase if he told the stewards that Trulli ‘overtook’ him… it’s obvious that Hamilton would have let him past… what kind of overtake in F1 happens behind a safety car in second gear?? Haha
They shouldn’t pealalise hamalton cos he didn’t do anything wrong. It was his team that lied, not him. The team should lose their points, but not Hamilton.
Very disappointing indeed. Not the disqualification, which given the new evidence seems fair, but the fact that McLaren are lying about important facts. You would have thought they had learned from the 2007 spy-scandal, but apparently Whitmarsh is no better than Dennis at this game!
Here we go again another season of bitching whinging moaning and bloody law suits and its only race one BOLLOCKS TO THE LOT OF IT its only going to drag the sport further down in my estimation
I first thought this was unfair, but but after thinking about it, i came to the conclusion that it’s the opposite. Dont like these post-race position changes, but the rules are the rules, what are you going to do?
Hope Kimi does well this weekend btw.
McLaren should be sponsored by New Labour if they are going to bend the truth.
Although this is a couple of championship points at stake, not a war.
i think the majority of f1 fans will agree that the technical changes from last year have improved the championship. why ruin everything with a repeat of last year’s frankly bizzare retrospective penalties. just as the techinical side of f1 needs a rethink, so the whole penalties and safety car system could do with being revised.
Toyota know what happened. Mclaren know what happened.
If it was a proper issue Toyota would’ve complained about it.
This is bullshit. Regardless of what happened they’ve had the hearing and that’s that. You can’t keep chopping and changing every five minutes, it’ll kill the sport.
Right now I have no confidence in what I see at each race as it can all completely change a week later. Why even bother watching. . .
This doesn’t happen in any other sport
I love F1, my mates arent into it so much, i would love them to be, but bull like this isnt going to help, why waste 2 hours watching the race on sunday to not know the true result unitl thursday. The FIA have completlety lost the plot, are they trying to lose fans????
lewis can’t win if he would of let him past he would have got sa penalty so he lets him past and still gets a penalty. why penalise one driver then swap him around. (will he be able to appeal against this)
also how can they take his points away so quickly but then it takes weeks to see if the diffuser cars are legal or not
i want to cry. I HATE everything at the moment now.
i don’t see how mclaren could be accused of lying; if they kept trulli behind, they’d have in all liklihood got penalised for not giving the place back (which stewards hate punishing hamilton for obviously…) so they let trulli get the place back, covering their own tracks, the right thing to do, then appealing against trulli for overtaking under SC.
IF SOMEBODY GOES OFF THE TRACK YOO ARE NOT GOING TO SIT AROUND AND WAIT FOR THEM TO REJOIN AHEAD OF YOO TO THE PIECE OF TARMAC THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO CRUISE AROUND AT 70MPH
making up 15 places for nothing.
just to add
all information we recieve is from media thus it is not exact, so my point is that toyota did what they had to do regardless and whatever popped up in news is just a , well, s.ite.
so FIA ruled and whatever the outcome they are there to judge in fairness of the sport.
or i put it this way, sometimes law is not fair but it is the law and thats it.
and there was an incident involving i think webber and vettel while hamilton sped up behind safety car and they thought race was on and they crashed.
Thats life and Lewis must get on with the task in hand this weekend.
How exciting. Diffusers, boycotts, sidepods, penalties for crashing during a race for postion, overtaking during a safety car. Misleading radio chatter.
And it is just the first race.
They should really just have dropped Lewis back to where he was suppose to be in the order, 4th. Fined the team 50,000 for giving their driver the wrong info. By the sounds of it. If they said nothing to Lewis and he stayed in third behind the SC he would have been ok. After all Trulli did leave the white lines of the track behind the SC.
Here we go again. For christs sake. The FIA don’t want another Dominant force in F1 that much is obvious! Lewis needs to be straight and stop allowing himself to get into these situations and most of all they need to stop messing around! After a certain time in the day, the decisions that have been made should stand and then we can start blaming OFFICIALS for bad decisions just like we do in Football! If we gave Ref’s 4 days to work out what’s right then yeah we would never blame them! But that’s not the way it should be done, we can’t wait around all day in the rain on a dark pitch wondering if the referee is going to rule the goal offside?. The racing should be on the track like Football shouldb on the field. I hope this isn’t a sign of things to come after they’ve ruined the look of the cars, slowed them down and p***** everyone off again by fannying around!
There are two problems here:
1. Excessive penalties issued too late. In this instance its Thursday, the race was early Sunday morning – and they’re deciding to disqualify somebody now. Even Vettel’s treatment was far too harsh and far too late. A number of posts above compare this to other sports eg football one ref has to make an on the spot decision someone gets a rep the other a free or whatever -the game moves on (the fans get to call him a w***r!)
2. The investigation procedure. Was Trulli’s race ruined on McLaren’s protest alone? I understand another team bringing a point to officials but there seems to be a big issue here. Last year we saw a Ferrari lawyer cross exam in the spy case. Not offering evidence – actually affecting the outcome of an FIA investigation.
Always with the good points Jaimie
It’s backpedalling from the FIA like this that annoys F1 fans. Just when you are ready to give the FIA a bit of credit for spicing things up with all the rule changes they go and lose all that confidence by being post race prats.
The FIA need to get a grip of this kind of farce ASAP. It’s not important who’s right and who’s wrong, what’s important is that no-one is going to bother to watch F1, and to care about what happens, if the result on the podium is changed on a regular basis.
Other sports accept that occasionally wrong decisions will be made, and competitors will be a bit naughty. England ‘won’ the World Cup in 1966 on the back of 2 ‘goals’ which weren’t, for heaven’s sake! What on earth were the stewards doing during the Melbourne race? – they clearly weren’t watching very carefully. We need a cast-iron rule that protests must be lodged within 30 mins of the chequered flag, and an absolutely final decision made within 2 hours.
Likewise with the diffuser issue – the race scrutineers must be final arbiters of what is legal on a car and what isn’t – if they pass a car to race then by definition it’s legal. How can it take the FIA so long to decide something so simple?
The bottom line is, did Trulli pass lewis under yellows or not, if so, Lewis should retain his third place, if not Trulli 3rd Lewis 4th simple!!!!
When the high courts get around to disqualifying all the ‘diffuser teams’, Lewis would have won the race. This is the ‘new evidence’ being alluded to, you can’t give Hamilton a boost by changing the rules, he always has to be penalised.
So Jarno Trulli might be the race winner by the time of the 3rd race of the season.
Diffusers are a little more complicated than deciding who over took who.
They need to determine advantages and legalities in all aspects of design, areo and the way the car handles with or without it.
The FIA rules are immense and there trying to out fox the worlds greatest automative engineers when we both know they haven’t actually broken the rules. Because everything from size, width, weight and what compound you make every part of the car from is already pre-determined before a race even starts. They need to do tests, analyse results and work on the issue of fairness. Just because someone comes up with a great idea which could hand Jensen ANOTHER win this weekend, should we punish them for being smart?
It’s hugely more complicated then surveying video footage and figuring out what Lewis said doesn’t back up the video evidenece.
It’s more annoying knowing that these cars could and should be faster, but we have to sit watching and KNOWING that this sport is only as quick as the rules allow.
With modern areo and tyres combined with old engine designs even from only a few seasons ago we wouldn’t still be seeing “M.Shumacher 1min 24 lap record” at Melbourne. He did that years ago and the sport is being spoilt by those who run it.
if all the diffuser teams get disqulified that will mean the the finished grid of autrailer will contain ferraris renauts and red bull so u can see why they have done this to hamilton (they don’t like him because he doesnt drive like a robot like they want him to
THE FIA ARE RACIST!
Lee Taylor is racist!!!
to Jamie.
i do not think it is personal issue here!!!
and spa was too harsh but the punishment should have been there!!!
Am not the one banning Lewis from everything
Oh McLaren, when will you learn to play fair?
what a bunch of Tw@’s.
I’m getting sick of the who changing of the finish order 4 days after a race.
the stewards should have 10 mins from the end of the race to the 3 top drivers walking onto the podium to issue any penalties etc, after that, the result should stand. If a team is caught cheating after the 10 mins, a grid/time penalty should be issued for the next race.
everyone using my idea, cos am a genius!
Lee Taylor coming out with a comment like that just makes you look stupid if they were racist he would not of even been given a licence to race let alone get into F1, so im guessing you dont really no much about racing.
also i remember after the spa incident last year that they said the stewards decisions were going to be more transparent according to the FOA world feed truli went wide under the safety car and then hamilton let him pass it seems to prevent himself from being disqualified for overtaking even if he was going slow they were behind a safety car so that argument should be thrown out hamilton was given the points and there should be a time limit on stewards decisions. this all proves that mosley and ecclestone need to be removed from their positions
i agree on a grid penalty rather than taking all of hamiltons hard work away. this could all make hamilton lose heart but lets hope not and see him be the best ever
the race has been over for nearly a week why talk about it now
maybe ill just point out that no one was complaing when shumie got peanilised when he over took ruhbens to get 1st and 2nd yet when mclrean did it it was fine and they got away with it so im thinking that all these people jumping on the band wagen saying the FIA is wrong are just followers like sheep, after all if the shoe had been on the other foot and lewis was in trulli’s place what would you all be saying then
I thought I caught a glimpse of Trulli going wide during the final safety car period and coming back on to the track ahead of Hamilton – but it was only a glimpse…
Surely, what the FIA should do with post race decisions is to publish not only the findings in full, but also all the appropriate footage so that everyone can see how the decision was arrived at.
Here we go again…All the Lewis worshippers coming up with conspiracy theories…LOOK! Mclaren/Lewis made a BIG mistake by bullsh*ting the stewards, thats a big NO-NO! Thats like bullsh*ting your director at work! Its not a good idea, and Mclaren know this, they’ve been in F1 for ages and should know better. Point is, they tried to fool the stewards, they failed, hence them getting a penalty, thats it! Their fault! Got no one to blame but themselves! Get over it! The FIA are just trying to keep F1 clean after all those going ons in the Ferrari/Schumacher era! Thats hardly a bad thing is it? (Unless its against Lord Lewis the great and Mclaren)
Looks like the FIA aren’t gonig to be happy until McLaren are out of F1….after the last 2 seasons and now this at the start of 09, its only a matter of time before they restrict McLaren to the point where they are only allowed fiestas to race in!!
“Lee Taylor said…
THE FIA ARE RACIST!”
LOL. Just because Lewis is black, should he be allowed to do anything…like telling lies to stewarts???
JUSTIFIED PENALTY
the joke of this is if toyota did not have the advantage diffuser we would not be talking about this now so why didnt the fia concider this
theh only reason the penalised hamilton is because he made them look abit stupid (but not as much as they do now
the joke of this is if toyota did not have the advantage diffuser we would not be talking about this now so why didnt the fia concider this
theh only reason the penalised hamilton is because he made them look abit stupid (but not as much as they do now
hate to break it to all the bum boys of hamilton but the stewards would of seen the on board camera footage off lewis’s car so would of known what he had done as well as hamilton would of known what he had done which was cheat by telling a porky so morol of this is dont lie and you have no chance of this type of thing happening
i think its a harsh decision, especially considering the fact this has come out 4 days after the race. everyone is right with the fact that the FIA arent getting the point that things like this put people off the sport!
Mclaren arent really doing themselves any favours either though, considering all the controversy that has been around them the last few years, you’d think they’d have learned not to mislead stewards. the team should be penalised for this, but disqualification seems a bit harsh? why not just give Lewis the 25-second penalty, and re-instate Trulli to thrid.
as for the diffusers? i think this is just petty. the teams that are appealing, are the teams that are doing the worst so far, suggests theyre bitter because they didnt have the imagination to come up with something special like the Brawn and Toyota versions! lets not forget that twice they have been cleared 100% legal.
and the diffuser alone on the Brawn is not responsible for the far superior performance of their car, no one has mentioned their front wing as well, a lot of clever work has gone into that too!
NOT U Said…the only reason we all like lewis is because he is a great driver and if ferrari and other teams got as much penaltys as mclaren then i could see your point but last season leis got the most penaltys of some silly things. (i agree canada was stupid of him but one of the ferraris over took a bmw in the pits before the crash and the ferrari did not get a penalty) dont belive me look at the clips of it
The bottom line is that McLaren lied to the Stewards to give Hamilton extra points… so the penalty is justified.
Said Lewis: ‘I was told to let him back past, I don’t know if that’s the regulations’… If the reigning World Champion can’t keep up, what hope is there for us? I think that there should have been a full investigation after Sunday’s result, instead of a ‘knee-jerk’ penalty for Trulli, it would have saved a lot of confusion! Given the circumstances, it would have been fairer simply to reinstate the positions as at the end of the race, rather than penalise Lewis so heavily for ‘obeying orders’?
Hang on!! Does this mean that everyone who passed Vettel after his collision gets disqualified?? I DONT THINK SO!!! WTF?
the.stig.514 are you stupid he crashed, pulled to the side of the track and got out what do you want them to do que up behind him its a completely different occurence as neither lewis or trulli got out of there car whilst the race was going
whether its unfair or fair to lewis hamilton i cant say much…what i can say is FIA stewards arnt that good at making decisions…one moment they say one thing…then COMPLETELY disagree with it and say something else =S i mean wth is going on here
F1 is a great sport, really entertaining with all its different aspects, but the decisions just seem to be made on random impulses. It’s so frustrating when decisions change from one week to the next (and they always seem to favour ferrari). The FIA need to get some fixed rules and fixed officials, because this sport is really suffering at the moment. Although in this situation it does seem that mclaren have managed to land themselves in it, for ‘not telling the truth’. Not that i agree with the penalty though
As much as I love F1, I hate to say this is becoming a joke not a world class sport
I haven’t seen an F1 race in a loooong time, but when I hear that right at the start of the season stuff like this happens… I guess I’m not missing out on a lot, except maybe frustration / anger / confusion.
It seems like the actual racing doesn’t matter anymore. Very sad for fans and drivers alike.
By the way, wasn’t there supposed to be a blog for non-F1 related (sunday) motorsport on the Top Gear website? What was that supposed to be called again?
Well, lying doesn’t get you too far in F1. Great call.
cliff
it is all good it is controversy and mainly that is what keeps F1 on top over last few years.
Ferrari International Assistance steps in again.
“So McLaren and Lewis have been disqualified for not telling the truth.”
So what about in China when it was blatantly obvious that Massa and Raikanin were lying saying that it WASN’T team orders that meant Felipe passed Kimi near the end of the race.
Formula 1? More like Farce 1
I could stop laughing when I heard this news. F1 has become a joke, more so now, especially with these new clown car aero rules. They’ve taken away so much of the racing, its all too political now. shame on them!
I guess Ferrari paid the stewards to disqualify Lewis, oh….. wait…. we haven’t got to that point so far. Come on guys twist the obvious a bit further and blame Schumacher once you’re at it.
It is so simple to understand:
Lewis overtook Trulli as Trulli was off the track = Good / within the rules
Trulli overtook Lewis as Lewis WAS INSTRUCTED to let him pass and slowed down. Should Trulli stop and push Lewis? No, so Trulli saw LH slowing and letting him past which from a driver’s view it means that LH had a problem on his car. Why else would a driver slow down to let you past under a yellow flag or behind the safety car?
So the problem is all McLaren’s fault and not LH.
Did they tell him to slow down and let Trulli past? YES
Did Trulli overtake Lewis to get his position back? NO
Blame LH’s team end of story.
I think it is a shame to mess a championship off the track but I recall McLaren forwarding the issue to the stewards for investigation. It backfired.
so someone was speaking about someone stripes?
next race lewis will make good as always, and cars performance will change a lot during the season. it seems funny this years.
“It would appear that McLaren told Lewis over the radio to let him pass, but then told stewards after the race that Trulli overtook.”
Trulli had an off while following the safety car. If Mclaren weren’t sure whether Lewis’s pass was within the rules, they rightly told him to let Trulli back through. Protesting about it at the end of the race (I’m guessing after reviewing the information at hand about Trulli going off track) is pretty low. Most of you are massive Lewis fans but Trulli had a hell of a race. Remember where both the Toyotas started and Mclaren tried to cheat their way to a podium. It seems more than fair for them to lose points.
I like to see Lewis lose because I think he gets way too much credit for his success. On Sunday, he raced like a champ, clean, calm and measured. I thoroughly thought he deserved those points. But this! Those Mclaren boys and Hamilton are still working hard to maintain that reputation.
I’m so fed up with this post-race rule changing.
…..
Can you really be an F1 geek if you come up with comments like that?
i think im missing something, WHERE IS THE LIE? i don’t get it.
trulli GOES OFF
hamilton overtakes
trulli overtakes back
hamilton overtakes back
hamilton disqualified
is there a HUGE chunk missing from that somewhere?
actually hamilton didn’t overtake a second time did he, trulli wa on the podium, so ignore that bit :]
im am big lewis fan, im annoyed but i know that they dsq him for not giving all the information not for the sc issue.
This is a trulli appalling decision by the FIA…
Podge 90 – Have you even read the articles about this?
The only reason Trulli was given a penalty was because Mclaren protested his passing Lewis back. Lewis LIED when he said he didn’t deliberately let Trulli pass even though radio comms prove the team directive and Lewis did pull over to let Trulli past.
great to see the corruptness hasnt left f1 with the rule changes. I wonder how much Ferrari paid their pals the fia this time
http://www.formula1.com/n ews/headlines/2009/4/9115 .html
read that. Enough said
and how exactly are Ferrari involved in this?
this is something Mclaren cooked up, and then backfired on them
F1 is turning into the European Song Contest. Power-games and political grievences. I hear Sir Terry Wogan has quit commentating. Perhaps he’d like to pick up his mantle over here at F1.
as if under Ron Dennis things were bad, this is worse!
scandals even from Round 1…
does anyone get the impression that McLaren is always seen cheating these days..?
thanks for that link.
says it all about Mclaren and Hamilton really.
so hamilton said trulli overtook him, whereas trulli ACTUALLY went passed him? oh dear.
pathetically pedantic.
This is simply outrageous, at the end of the day, Trulli passed Lewis when he shouldn’t have, and neither Lewis nor Trullli gained anything.
So McLaren shouldn’t have lied about what they did or didn’t know but can you blame them for giving wrong instructions in the heat of the moment? No-one knows the FIA bible by heart and the FIA is doing everything they can to make that impossible.
It leaves me wondering what they come up with next to make people lose interest in the sport… Next time someone wins, I’ll wait a week before being happy.
And something else, what IF the diffusers are deemed illegal after this weekend? Will Brawn, Williams and Toyota be stripped of their results and will it be a Ferrari vs. McLaren race like last year?
So, Hamilton originally overtook on yellow? and then let Trully past supposedly under team instructions, and then he didn’t explain properly when asked by the stewards. Bad Boy Hamilton, really bad boy, why not sort out the story with Witmarsh in the beginning, and then erase that part of the tape and sweep the story under some rug.
where has the professionalism in F1 gone?
and on the subject of post race result amendments. these steward and race marshal hearings should be made public. cause since the race result is being decided in a room rather than on a track, we might as well get to see it.
sponsors are welcome to paint the walls,….
Those who want full disclosure of the evidence should start with this: http://www.formula1.com/n ews/headlines/2009/4/9115 .html
Unbelievable! This entire situation is a by-product of the ambiguous rules and flip-flopping stewards. Why wasn’t there a single camera recording the cars following the safety car? Why was Charlie (or someone in the control centre) completely unavailable to make a ruling? I don’t know why McLaren lied. Sounds like a spur of the moment ‘just say this and we’ll get the place back’ kind of thing. Whitmarsh was probably so fed up with the stewards he decided to do their job for them, only he made the right decision (getting Hamilton back into third place).
Of course, we all complain about this kind of thing every time it happens, but nothing ever changes. Does the FIA consider the controversy to be an integral part of F1? They must. But what can we do as fans? Stop watching F1? Yeah, right. There is no accountability in the FIA. The fans can’t stop them, the media can’t stop them, the teams as the FOTA can barely touch them. Come on Top Gear, what can be done?
Mclaren/Lewis were underhand. They knowingly tried to trick the stewards. Full stop. It’s not an anti-Mclaren/Lewis conspiracy – they got caught out and deserve the penalty. Even Mclaren, short of admitting guilt, expressed ‘regret’ at their own actions.
Yes, it’s a shame that this decision came so long after the initial race result (with Lewis in 3rd) and noone wants the results to keep changing afterwards BUT it meant the difference between 3rd and 12th for Toyota/Trulli, so why should they pay the price for Mclaren’s dishonesty?
So what if this whole mess pisses off/alienates casual fans who only follow it because their nationality driver is doing well (English in this case). F1 has always been as much about politics as it has racing, like it or not and will always continue to be. If you don’t like it, jump off the bandwagon.
HAHAHAHA!!! A cheat will always get caught, and McLaren Mercedes are the biggest cheats in F1. Lewis Hamilton was lucky to get any points on Sunday maybe he won’t be as lucky as he was last year. Malaysia will be all Ferrari and Masaa to win it.
I think this just proves again why a new concorde agreement hasn’t been signed yet. With petty rulings like this changing results days after events manufacturers and sponsors cannot be happy. One solution would be to select a team of stewards at the start of each season that travel to each race and make all decisions regarding transgressions and penalties, etc. Have the ‘local’ stewards focus on the running of the race and manning race control!
Maybe 2010 should see as big a rule change as 2009 but instead of the cars focus on race stewards and when they can rule about what.
Hello there everyone,
I´d just like to say that I´m brazilian, thus a big Felipe supporter. But come on! Disqualifying Lewis over that mistake from Trulli?!?!?! That´s unbelievably unfair! Lewis was a gentleman letting Trulli by after he messed up all by himself!
From listening to the radio from the mclaren, it seems that neither Hamilton or the team really knew what the course of action should have been. It also seems that they spoke to Charlie Whiting, and didn’t get a clear response from him. It seems that if they had been given the correct information, they would have acted correctly,they mention playing it by the book. So if Hamilton should have legally had third, I think its a shame he got demoted. Still, lying in a hearing hasn’t done them any favours.
A confusing situation, but Lewis was trying to do the honest thing, whether or not he went the right way about it is another question
FIA is messing up F1 for more than 2 years now.
Ugly cars Ugly rules Ugly desicions.
given hamilton’s win-whatever-the-cost approach, i can imagine the chain of events:
Hamilton sees Trulli going off. Good, he thinks, that’s a podium for me.
But no, his team then tell him to let Trulli through! Hamilton’s unhappy, slows down, Trulli, not aware of what’s going on, passes him. End of race.
Investigation. Stewards ask Hamilton what happened. ‘If I tell them that I deliberately slowed down to let Trulli pass’, Hamilton thinks, ‘then Trulli will not be found guilty and I will only get fourth. That can’t be right. No, I won’t tell them, I’ll just say he overtook me. Yeah, that’s cool. Six points are mine.’
So, it was childish and dishonest behaviour on Hamilton’s side. He should have told the stewards all he knew, but he was so desperate for 6 points that he chose to be economical with the truth. This is unsporting behaviour and, even if it had no influence on the actual result, the disqualification is justified.
They should sack the FIA people who did that, very confusing and not fair at all
Ferrari4life is an idiot, Ferrari are bigger cheats!
Whatever the case, no one here has the full story.
But its a real shame that nearly a week after the race is over the results are still not final.
Imo the stewards have too much power to control the outcome of a race…
Whats the time limit for things like this to be put forward anyway, because it seems that we’ll never have a race this season where the results are final.
What gets me is that Lewis/McLaren aren’t being punished for what they did or didn’t do in the race, but for being interviewed in relation to an upcoming punishment for Trulli which should never have been considered in the first place. Why not just say: ‘This conversation didn’t happen, okay? Trulli third, Lewis fourth’? Now the FIA looks as if they still have it in for McLaren. Which I truly suspect they do.
Any ole’ hoo. Only one race into the season and the FIA is well underway again. They’ve just taken up slack where they left off last year. I hate this and I’m not even a McLaren fan.
just read the transcription of the radio chitchat with hamilton an the team
One question:
Where the sodding hell was Charlie Whiting? that kind of negligence is why this shitstain of a situation happened.
ferrari4life if your goin to support a racer atleast spell his name right
and also hamilton wasnt lucky coz if he was not penalised he would have had six/seven or more wins last season
F1 is going to die a slow horrible death, if it continues with its non-sense. But, the FIA does have a point about telling truth though. It shows sportsmanship. It’s McLaren fault Hammy got disqualified. They told him to past Trulli. Maybe because they thought something was wrong with Trulli’s car when he went off the track so, I am not sure what the hell is going on. You know, lets move on. It’s done and gone. Next race!!
why the hell has no one mentioned sebastian buemi!
what a debut! in a crappy str, yet he stil came 7th! awesome! and 1 thing that is annoying is that every1 is jumping on the brawn bandwagon! i supported them since 2004 when they were BAR! like every1 jumped on the hamilton bandwagon! support sum1 and stick with them!
people in f1 are so vicious, probably as bad as footy hooligans.
i started supporting buemi when he was testing for a drive agaisnt the japanese driver,, hammy and buemi for me.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/s ol/homepage/sport/motorsp ort/article2357195.ece
hope this does not happen
If it had have been a Ferrari, they would have got away with it.
Right, the complaints-fest here is getting out of hand. They lied… THE END. What would the rest of you lot do when faced with a blatant lie in face of a Formula 1 race or something of comparable magnitude? You sure as hell wouldn’t shrug it off.
Its all getting ridiculous now, I for one wouldn’t pay a fortune to go to a sporting event only to have the winners decided days later by useless decision makers (keeping it clean).
Why don’t they just draw cards or something that would keep their “costs down”.
35 years following F1 and can only see it starting its own demise.
Its the laughing stock of all the sporting world at the moment. Get a grip and let the drivers race……
no they best not axe him from f1!
Why lie?!
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/ mediacentre/pressreleases /f1releases/2009/Pages/f 1_stewards_decision.aspx
ONE QUESTION: Why didn’t hardly anyone on here bat an eyelid and moan like f**k about the FIA being over-zealous when Trulli was demoted from 3rd to 12th because of an apparently innocent mistake at the time…and yet because it’s Hamilton now, the same people are up in arms saying ‘this is just too much!! F1 is doomed!!’. Double standards?!? I apologise if i’m missing something obvious and will admit ignorance if someone tells me (i’m only human!).
Proper decision, was hoping for this. Oh, and I don’t understand why topgear.com allows people people to post biased blogs.
mclaren are cheaters end of story
This is an absolutely abysmal situation. When one considers the massive overhaul to generate greater excitement for the fans prior to this season… last season was riddled with highly conterversial marshal descions. And here we are again. When will the FIA reaklise, I do not want to give up 2 hours of my sunday to watch a race to then discover four days later ‘none of that really counts, all that matters is who has the best lawyers’
This is not sport. This is not what fans want to see.
Why do they even bother. Soon enough no one will care anymore as events like this overshadow real acheivements as everyone is an umpire, teams have taken it upon themselves to take the marshalsrole in cases like the rear diffuser. If the authority on the matter accepts it, that is the answer, you can’t just kick up a fuss because regardless of how much money you throw at a problem, it does not fix it
It takes real grit and determination, as not shown by Ferrari, and unfortuantely McLaren.
Just because your car doesn’t win, that does NOT mean that everyone else is cheating….!!!!!! That is the most pathetic of excuses….
Anyway, apologies about the length of this post, but I am infuriated by the double standards.
Hang on…..
Apparently Toyota didn’t appeal but McClaren and Hamilton got penalised anyway.
But if we go back to the last season when the WHOLE basis of the failure of McClaren’s appeal against the Spa ruling with Ferrari was “Well, once the decision has been made, there is no changing it afterwards, even if it was wrong to begin with.”
Conspiricy? With the FIA? NEVER!
why do the FIA have to ruin every race just leave it alone!
LOL! I respect Hamilton and he’s an awesome driver. He also must be pretty upset, but you’ve got to respect the comedic value in this. It’s pure gold!
M, I would imagine if people wearn’t biased there wouldn’t be much to say!
Again, as Jaimie said at the start the problem is not whether McLaren bent or broke the rules. McEnroe will always have said the ball was in; Roy Keane will always say he played the ball not the other players shin, (fill in your own contraversial sport incident here)
The FIA have to tighten up their own game and stop fiddling around with the rules and giving themselves days to make a decision only to overturn their own desicion.
In any game there are rules.
Play by it. It doesn’t mean having one of the largest budgets in F1 allows you to make it up as you go along. Because then who would want to compete in motorsports’ highest echelon.
Thank God this “lie” was uncovered.
Football is all about cheating. If you can con the referee you’re a winner, like allowing Messi and Maradona’s handed goals.
How rubbish is that?
Why not have the 100m sprint done with any sort of tailwind speeds. And to bring back the 100m line by 5m so that a new world record can be done.
You see how ridiculous it starts to become if you don’t ensure strict following of rules in the game?
The most pathetic thing here is the FIA, overturning their own decision after already having all the evidence and then blaming mclaren for it. They dont have to ask for radio transcrpts, they have them already and can listen to them whenever they want. They had all the evidence at the beginning, they have no right waiting this long, decisions should all be made on race day and none of this sudo rule interpretation.
From what I can tell the only thing Mclaren did wrong was play it safe and let trulli back past, its not their fault that race control would not get in touch with them.
Hamilton 3rd, Trulli 4th, or some other similar order where they both get the points they deserve
And without opinions,, or bias you call it, it would be a very boring world.
I hate FIA. They just come along and ruin our day by Lewis Hamilton being disqualified. How come they dont make stupid rules in other games? I do like Lewis Hamilton but its Alonso for me. Go Alonso.
K, so without the “lying”, Lewis would have been 3rd as the telemetry says he didn’t slow down to let Trulli pass… and how can they be lying, the FIA had access to the full in car communications the whole time, so what they made the initial decision with out bothering to look at all the evidence… wow quality work there guys. Isn’t this technically the teams fault so why penalise Lewis… Meh… who cares they’ll change there minds again soon enough.
So… Touring cars on Sunday then?
what a load of B*****it
in that interview with whitmarsh he says that lewis didnt slow down at all to let him through yet he was clearly asked TWICE by the team to do so and responded with ‘ok’ and later on even said ‘I let him past already’ which clearly means that he LET HIM PAST. yet whitmarsh says trulli just went past. in my opinion lewis was right to pass but because his team werent clear on the rules they played it safe and lost the position. (keeping in mind that its not race controls fault when theyre too busy to explain the rule that mclaren should already know) they then relaised theyre mistake and ‘withheld information’ and bent the truth in order to get the place back, which was dishonest and so they were disqualified. harsh but fair
Why can’t F1 just be about racing? Hell, even NASCAR in all of its left turning…ness is all about racing, not making judgments and penalties days after the finish of one.
why dont the FIA just pick their f’ing favourite driver and crown him already, they clearly demand to control the points, just control the trophy entirely, who needs to race anymore
for crying outloud, its not a sport anymore, its just politics
and i HATE POLITICS!!!
The only lies in F1 seem to be the FIA’s bias towards a certain team.
Yet again we are seeing race decisions being made off the track and after the race.
This is ruining F1. why don’t we just hand over the Championships to the clowns in Red Suits now and have done with a season of farces like we did last year. After all Ferrari deserve it as they are getting paid more to be on the grid. Well done Bernie and Max, you are ruining the sport.
Solid evidence for the fact McMerc and Hammy did in fact cheat again!
Can’t believe some morons actually support McMerc what a cheating organization.
No one should say that this is the FIA’s bias towards mclaren, as mclaren accpeted the penalty and said it was fair.
can someone tell me when mclaren cheated and what they did? i started watching f1 at the beggining of last season.
Why are some idiots on here always blaming the boys from Maranello for the events of other teams, uneducated twits.
GOD BLESS THE STEWARDS
Justice has been done.
Jamie, do you still believe that Lewis “earned his stripes”?
How has he earned his stripes?
using his skills?
cheating skills, as it was revealed.
How do you call lying deliberately to gain an advantage?
Do you call it “sport” ?
Astonishing as it may be, It is Hamilton (and McLaren) who has happened to be involved in the greatest number of scandals.
You may say he did not know he was lying.
Accordingly you may say that McLaren didn’t steal Ferrari technical documentation. Santa Clause may have left as a Christmas present.
On TopGear you stress the value of sport and fair competition.
Thanks to Hamilton (and Maclaren) F1 has become corrupt.
He has more enemies than friends ( I mean those who are not against him). And this is not because “he does his job well”, winning at any cost even if it includes cheating
Luckily, there are some drivers who can compete on the circuit and be friends after the race. Not Hamilton though.
Don’t you think he has made a fool of You as well as of his fans.
How justice has been done I dont know, FIA had all the evidence, if they called it wrong its their fault not mclarens so undo the penalty to Trulli and be done with it
justice has been done in a way that lewis has been deprived of what he was unjustly given.
Any driver who bends the rules should be punished
Regardless of what appears to have been a pretty damn stupid lie, can anyone tell me whether Lewis was required by the rules to let Trulli through or not?
Doesn’t seem to have been mentioned anywhere?
Lewis was not required to let Trulli pass – the position was rightfully his, since Trulli left the track entirely. McLaren made a bad judgment in asking him to let Trulli pass, and an even worse one when (possibly) instructing Lewis to lie about it! Hence the punishment for unsporting behaviour!
sleepy hollow he lied to gain 1 position not much
Lewis knew the rules and shoulda stayed in front of Trulli after passing him – why bother going on the radio and checking with the team and that dithering dolt Whitmarsh? Just tell them ‘hey guys, Trulli went off, I passed, P3 now, woohoo!’
If Ham had shown more confidence he’d still have his three points – Toyota could hardly have appealed if the telemetry/cameras showed he went off.
Don’t these guys know the rules of their own sport?
i am glad this happened to Hamilton. He is a lucky guy, and was lucky to win it last year.
Massa should have won it this year
sorry meant last year
Jamie H. said:”What I don’t get, is how a decision could have been made last weekend without all the evidence, how Toyota could decide there was no point protesting, and then for the decision to be changed anyway.”
The LH disqualification has nothing to do with Toyota, or even the pass. It all boils down to the provable fact that both LH and his team deliberately lied to the stewards. And by the way, Toyota said earlier that they dropped the protest because technically there was no way they could win, even if they felt they had suffered injustly.
I fail to understand why Hamilton fans are complaining so vigorously and blaming Bernie and Mosley. The stewards have chosen to strip Hamilton of the points for not telling the entrie truth to the stewards. It is the stewards that have done so, because thats what the FIA rulings allow, it is not directly the FIA or Mosley doing this. And blaming Bernire is idiotic, he has little to nothing to do wiht rulemaking, he merely holds commercial rights to the sport. And this is coming form someone who isn’t too fond of either of those fellows.
At the end of the day, the problem was that McLaren appealed against Trulli’s overtaking behind safety car after telling their driver to let him pass. It makes it look as if McLaren are trying to get him penalised. If they were unsure they should have asked the race director Charlie Whiting if they needed to give the position back. In essence, McLaren dug themselves a grave and are now resting in it.
Im fed up of this! One of the most exciting races for yearsand its all spoiled by constant and important decision changing!!! There should be a limit to how long after a GP these stupid decisions are made. Like 3 minutes lol!
But seriously unless its to do with safety or anything as important as that the FIA should stick to their original decision. Plus Toyota dropped their appeal so whats the point in doing what they were originally wanting when even they gave up!!!
THE FIA SHOULD GO BE BANNED!!!!!
There are two separate issues here that are getting mixed up:
1) Mclaren (incl. Ham) incompetence – learn the rules, guys, so you don’t have to mince around trying to get Charlie’s OK for everything,
and 2)Ongoing FIA incompetence – however stupid Mclaren are, deciding race results days after the race itself is DUMB (we watch on TV because we want to know who’ll win – we might as well skip the race on TV and just look on teletext a week after the race finishes…)
I think, after 30 years, I might be on the verge of being an EX-fan of this ’sport’.
to tom
Sometimes, one position can mean a lot, it can mean championship.
Cheating is always cheating, even for one position.
cheating one position- so what ?
stealing confidential documents- so what?
so what as long as it is Hamilton (McLaren)
But if any other driver makes even a minor mistake, there is tsunami of criticism,
I’m not McLaren or Ferrari, or Totyota Fan
That’s why I can have an independent view.
And I’ve been observing Hamilton since he joined F1, He has bent the rules a lot of times.
What appeared “dynamic driving” to you (Hamilton fans).
others may defined as a totally different thing,
Sleep Hollow it’s clear from your comments on this and other blogs that you take great pleasure from Hamilton bashing. You must be very proud of yourself. I won’t bother reading your comments anymore.
From 17th to 18th to 3rd and 4th. Toyota F1 actually looks stronger than Brawn GP imho.
@Nod
McLaren had the wheel covers before Ferrari. And they dont actually move, if you watch some clips, you’ll see that they are static. And within a few races most of the teams has them, as pretty much all of them have them this year
why doesn’t the FIA let ronald mcdonald run F1. its obviously run by clowns so our hamburger selling clown would settle in very nicely , i’m not being sarcastic either i really feckin mean it .why bother watching 2 hours of fantastic racing, see the result cheer or cry for whoever, then get pissed off by the FIA days later with some B.S. if this is going to happen to team brawn as well, then bernie and his cronies have lost an avid fan, somehow i dont think i’m alone in thinking this….P.S. i hope bernies wife gets a good divorce lawyer and bleeds as much as she possibly can out of him.
Excellent work McLaren!
Did you learn nothing from 2007?
If the diffuser appeal succeeds the result is:
1.Alonso
2.Buemi
3.Bourdais
4.Sutil
5.Heidfeld
6.Fisichella
7.Vettel
8.Kubica
Although that might be subject to appeal as Vettel took out Kubica!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which would put Raikkonen 8th!
Subject to appeal.
to Graham Potter
I don’t take pleasure from bashing poor Hamilton.
What do you mean by “bashing” ?
Giving hard facts?
Asking difficult questions which has remained unanswered.
@Pedant – good post. Hmmm..also, that result looks pretty Sebtastic!!
@Dave
The divorce has been settled at around £1 billion from what I understand. Bernie had no prenup
You know, I love race day, and I enjoy qualifying too, but all this sh*te ruins F1 for me, a fairly new fan (pre-hamilton btw).
Not to mention the fact (FACT) that the FIA (and maybe Bernie) are pro-Ferrari.
The guy can’t drive behind a safety car and won’t admit it. It’s fair that he got disqualified, but it should have happened in or right after the race.
I think that they should punish hamilton for this weekend aswell
When is F1 going to be about a bunch of blokes going as fast as they can around a circuit to see if they can come first and win?
The FIA had it in for Lewis last year & no doubt this year will be the same, its dissapointing as it is such a great sport. I’m surprised the FIA didn’t manage to somehow find a way of making a Ferrari win to be honest.
This whole changing the results is ridiculous.
LET THEM RACE BECAUSE THATS WHAT THE SPORT IS ABOUT, JUST LET ME RACE CARS!
EVERYTHING Nod said i agree with
Nice one mate, top bloke.
What a disgrace when lewis put on such a fantastic drive to get up to third, the rule changers will ruin this sport for us all.
THE FIA NEED TO TAKE A GOOD HARD LOOK AT THEMSELVES!
It says a lot when the radio transcripts have McLaren and Hamilton dithering over what to do about Trulli. No one knows how to react and everyone ends up tip-toeing around the rules for fear of penalties. That said, it looks like McLaren knowingly fibbed to the stewards so they deserve a punishment.
F1 2009 is one race old and is looking like a farce already. Get down the bookies and put a random fiver on Sutil being crowned this season’s champion sometime in 2011.
Further to my post #154:
Having thought about this, I’m surprised McLaren diliberately lied to gain 1 point.
I know the last 2 championships have been decided by that amount, but to be so greedy this early in the season is “not within the spirit of the rules”.
When Hamilton spoke after the race he did seem to suggest he let Trulli take his place back.
Why did Toyota relinquish their appeal?
Trulli must be so frustrated:
He qualified 8th;
His qualifying result was declared void;
He raced to 3rd place;
His race result was declared void;
His race result was reinstated;
His race result may still be void because of his diffuser!
@ Simon (back up on no. 152)
The original wheel covers a few years ago actually spun with the wheels, they weren’t stationary like the ones that are fitted now. They had an aerodynamic effect, and they moved, but as Nod said they were technically not “movable aerodynamic devices”. Tch!
The new fixed wheel covers were developed because they are better for directing airflow around the tyre, rather than to avoid the movable-aerodynamic-devic e rule.
F.Y.I.: THE ASSOCIATED PRESS…
In the Safety Car period, brought about by a late crash, Trulli was in third place when he briefly ran off the track.
While passing is prohibited during Safety Car periods, a driver can move up if a car ahead goes off the circuit.
McLaren, having not seen Trulli run off, were told over the radio by Hamilton that he had passed the Toyota driver.
The team tried to get clarification from race control about whether Hamilton could remain in third.
When that clarification was not forthcoming, McLaren told Hamilton to give back third place, which he did.
Post-race, the Stewards – without the benefit of McLaren’s radio communication – ruled that Trulli should not have taken back third spot, and penalized him 25 seconds, dropping him from third to 12th.
McLaren claimed Thursday they thought race authorities already knew the content of the radio transmission, which can be heard during the race.
Whitmarsh denied that the Stewards’ ruling amounted to an allegation that McLaren and Hamilton lied to the Melbourne hearing, saying only that the team erred by not being more forthcoming about the radio communication between team and driver.
“There’s no indication that Lewis lied,” Whitmarsh said.
“There was no lie within that hearing. We the team made a mistake, that we didn’t supply a full account of a radio conversation we believe was being listened to in any case and we don’t believe was material to the decision being made by the Stewards.”
I concur with nod. on the subject of movable aerodynamic parts, Ferrari brake ducts vs Renault mass damper (which was inside the car), which one was banned?
The FIA are useless, although i must admit for his first weekend in charge, Martin Whitmarsh did a crap job.
I’m answering my own question now.
Toyota did not appeal because:
Article 152, paragraph 5 of the Sporting Code: ‘Penalties of driving through or stopping in pit lanes together with certain penalties specified in FIA Championship regulations where this is expressly stated, are not susceptible to appeal’.
The 25 second post race penalty is equivalent to a drive through, so Toyota could not appeal.
Thanks Maurice2014.
Stewards didn’t clarify what Lewis should do while behind safety car?
Stewards didn’t listen to all the available information before penalising Trulli?
Stewards blame Mclaren & penalise Hamilton?
New Stewards please.
I want to love F1 so much, I used to be a die hard fan, but this is just another example of why I can’t. They restructured F1 to stop all the overtaking in the pits, but now most of the overtaking seems to be executed within post race inquirys.
I’ll take Moto GP any day
It’s karma
This is what I think. FIA is like a parent to all F1 teams. They take care of them. Ferrari is their favorite and Mclaren is always been the black sheep. Why I say this because even though Mclaren follows the rules one small mistake from them and they will get it. They always been seen as the stubborn team. The fans thinks already that Mclaren is a cheater and always will be.
I think its all miscommunication from everybody. The team doesn’t know what to do if they are going to overtake or not. So they rely on their instincts and do best for the team.
They didn’t think about who is going to get more points but they just want to finish the race without penalty.
I’m really starting to lose interest in F1
I can’t believe this is a bigger issue than the Vettel penalty !!!
Think about all the changes and BS about increasing overtaking and then the give a penalty for a “racing accident”….TO THE FIA…if your going to increase the passing, good chance the amount of racing accidents will increase and you shouldn’t penalize the drivers for doing something the teams spent millions on because you wanted to increase the spectical.
And if Mclaren is using the same rear diffuser as the brawn, toyota and williams. They will say it is illegal
This is getting ridiculous. Changing the results of a race 4 days after the race, AND after the “plantiff” team (Toyota) decided to give up on their case? Wow.
I wonder who pushed things forward with the FIA? Maybe a team who was in last place in the standings, 6 points behind their main rival? *Cough* FERRARI *Cough*
I wouldn’t be suprised if the radio recordings were presented to the FIA on an official Ferrari Edition iPod.
If you don’t think the FIA has something against McLaren and/or Lewis after this incident, then you don’t have a brain in your head.
First Spa ‘08 and now this?
The FIA is one of the most hypocritical governing bodies in existence. Were they not the ones saying “well, we can’t go back and change the results in light of new evidence blah, blah, blah,” when Spa-gate happened?
I guess they just changed the rules again. In Spa, it was “new rule, you now must wait for two corners before you start racing again.”
Now it’s, “new rule, we can change the results of a race even if the race happened almost a week ago.”
Lewis, Alonso, and Hakkinen better keep an eye on their championships! The FIA may just decide to go back and review all the races over the past decade or so and start changing results based on new findings…
Kimi and Michael’s championships are safe though, of course.
Not to sound too old (I’m only 25), but “back in my day” when you watched the end of a race, and the official results came in (usually within a few minutes), that was that. The race was run and you knew the FINAL results.
I think the bookies in the UK and Europe are going to give up on taking bets for F1. Seriously, how can you run any kind of wagering system when things like this happen?
What if someone bet that when all was said and done on sunday, Lewis would finish 3rd? Do they have to give the money back now?
This is just getting silly now.
Lewis has got to hold the Formula 1 record for “the driver most penalized for letting another car overtake.”
Spa ‘08-FIA says:”Well yes Lewis, you clearly let Kimi overtake you, but we think you should have waited a tad longer before you started racing him again. You know, so he could catch his breath and press the drink button on his steering wheel. Be civil Lewis! 25-second penalty! Muah ha ha ha ha!”
Australia ‘09 (+4 days)-FIA says:”Well yes Lewis, it was Trulli who caused all the confusion by not being able to drive around at 60 mph behind the safety car without screwing up, and yes you let him by, but, um, uh, you kinda lied…sort of…anyway, no points for you! Muah ha ha ha ha!”
and yes I know the UK is part of the continent of Europe, so don’t go using that in your arguments against me Hami-haters!
Toyota Radio Recording:
Trulli:”…I am in trouble…I am in trouble, I have to stop…”
At this point Hamilton overtook him because he slowed, then later…
Trulli:”…just ask if I can overtake! Just ask if I can overtake!”
Safety car or not, yellow flags or not, if Trulli slowed because he was “in trouble,” then Hamilton had the right to pass him no matter what.
F1 is a joke once again…
@ Shez.sheridan: “post-race overtaking” … hehe, you can’t put it any better.
MotoGP ftw
Even my mother, who barely follows F1, asked if it’s a race anymore. What does that say?!
Bernie Evilston NEEDS to stop treating Formula 1 like a bloody Scalextric set and let it be a god-damned Sport! This is completely unnecessary. I thought the FIA picked on him to get Ferrari a win, but now it’s seeming like he’s just their whipping boy. FIA are such cocks.
And before anyone cries Fanboy, I’m actually betting that Jenson Button will have it this year, or Vettel if the Brawn’s diffuser is outlawed for being too good and too useful.
BREAKING NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/spo rt2/hi/motorsport/formula _one/7979833.stm 0614: BREAKING NEWS FROM SEPANG
Dave Ryan who organised meeting with hamilton and stewarts has left McLaren on Sepang.
I guess this debate is over now. Should Hamilton also be sacked?
@Marcus. #180 sounds a little far fetched. If you are going to make something up this is a little more fun.
“I heard Trulli went off because he was counting the money Mclaren gave him to let Lewis pass…”
To a new topic.
Whats the bet half the Kers cars overheat.
maybe we could talk about the Friday practice results?
Morning all,
@Simon : The original wheel covers looked stationary because they rotated and due to having a ‘heavy bottom’ appeared to remain stationary. This year’s ones are in fact fixed. (Edit: I think Nitpicker pointed this out as well.)
I’m not 100% sure about McLaren having them first – Ferrari had them, there was ‘confusion’ as to whether they were “within the spirit of the rules” and when found legal (as brake coolers!) everyone else had to have them as well as they (probably) could see the advantages. Until the weather got hot and the brake cooling seemed to stop working – funny that!
I also missed out Ferrari’s Barge Boards which were not allowed to move, but which, strangely enough, could be moved! That wasn’t ‘in the spirit of the rules’ it was a blatant breach of the rules. (A couple of seasons or so ago – I’m getting too old to remember stuff these days!)
@What! – Me? Top bloke? Nah, grumpy old fart I’m afraid. But thanks.
@Pedant : “Having thought about this, I’m surprised McLaren deliberately lied to gain 1 point.” – I’m puzzled. Did they lie or not?
We will never know for sure because we didn’t (and will not) see/hear exactly what went on in the enquiry. However, Lewis was interviewed on live TV and said that he has been told to let Trulli past.
Now, to me anyway, If I’ve made a statement of fact like that in front of x million people on TV, I’m going to be a tad foolish to wander into the stewards office 10 minutes later and say something completely different, especially as:
(a) I know what has already gone out on TV;
(b) I know what I have said on my radio communications;
(c) I know that said radio comms are in the FIAs/Stewards hands;
(d) I know those b’stards have it in for me and/or my team anyway.
What the FIA/Stewards are saying about McLaren’s “deliberate misleading” is extremely puzzling given the above.
The FIA are turning F1 into the bloody World Wrestling Federation where the results are pre-planned and no betting on the ’sport’ is allowed.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m a Brit fan and always will be (ok, if any get to drive for Ferrari I’ll have a problem!) and I loathe and detest cheating of any kind (I won’t play cards with my mother in law for that reason) and if any team has cheated, they should and must be punished. But, the rules must be applied equally and consistently to all teams regardless of whether they have red cars or not!
Oops, ranting again. I’ll stop now.
Lets hope it pisses down this weekend and we get a good race in horrendous conditions. Wonder if the FIA will penalise ‘god’ for the wrong weather? (ok, that was a joke, at least, I think it was!)
Cheers,
Nod.
Best football match is when you don´t c the referee.
Worst games is when they want to put themselves in attention. FIA should not have interfered in this.
They should step back and let things happen, there are no scenarios for every situation.
MORE NEWS FROM AUTOSPORT:
http://www.autosport.com/ news/report.php/id/74180
[b]McLaren confirms Ryan’s suspension[/b]
“McLaren has confirmed that sporting director Dave Ryan has been suspended from his position with the team.”
I think Mclaren and Hamilton have now a good scapegoat. After all, he must have forced Lewis to tell lias to the Stewarts. So FIRE him. LOLZ
Aghhh..please no more comparisons with footy!!! This is a totally different ball game…D’oh! You’ve got me started now!
To all Hamilton fans that can not see that Hamilton though a great driver has wrong attitude and no moral at all – JUST THINK WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF IT WAS ALONSO/FLAVIO duo in question?!?!?!?!?!?
McLaren suspended their Sporting Director and are not appealing the decision.if that is not a guilt admission tell me what is?
I’ve been an avid fan of F1 for years but enough is enough. The FIA clearly intend to strangle the sport, and I’m not sure how much longer it will last.
For me, McLaren deserved disqualification, but i agree with the writer, if you are not an F1 geek, this can get f**** confusing! Certainly not the best way to make F1 more popular or more “audience friendly”.
@Miloh : “To all Hamilton fans that can not see that Hamilton though a great driver has wrong attitude and no moral at all – JUST THINK WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF IT WAS ALONSO/FLAVIO duo in question?!?!?!?!?!?”
I’m a Brit driver fan, so that includes Lewis. As I said above, I hate cheating of any kind. Had it been Alonso/Flavio in this position I would be saying exactly the same things – if they cheated, fine – throw the book at them.
Lewis was stuffed eitehr way when Trulli drove off the track. If he gave the position back, he gets done for ‘cheating’ and ‘forcing’ Trulli to overtake. If he kept the place, he gets done for overtaking under the safety car. Rocks and hard places come to mind.
You may call me cynical, I am. But after the last couple of seasons where many many strange rulings were made up or announced or applied, what else can we be?
Alonso is a great driver, at least he was when he had his mass damper in the Renault – but which team tried and failed to make one for their own cars and when they failed to make it work, appealed to the FIA and got Renault’s one banned? Clue: It wasn’t McLaren.
I hope all the teams and drivers do well this year, especially Brawn and McLaren. I’d be most impressed by a complete failure of the Ferraris as well.
Cheers,
Nod. (A bitter and twisted old git!)
what the ****? Only the first race of the season and yet again, we have behind the scenes race manipulation?
BTW, none of the radio recordings work anymore.
@Concerned F1 Fan : “McLaren suspended their Sporting Director and are not appealing the decision.if that is not a guilt admission tell me what is?”
It’s not an admission of anything at all. The facts are that McLaren have suspended a team member for not doing his job as well as he could during the stewards enquiries and that is all.
An admission of guilt is something like “yes, we lied – guilty as charged.” What you are doing is inferring guilt which is not the same as admitting it.
The sad fact is this, you and I will never ever be told exactly what happened, true we will see/hear the radio conversations (or parts of them) etc, but we will never (I suspect) see a transcript of exactly what was said by who in the enquiries. So, we can speculate all we like, but we will never know.
Cheers,
Nod.
@Miloh
I would say the same thing. FIA is the problem not the teams!!
Hamilton will be gone by the end of this year if this sort of thing carries on. Mclaren have badly let him down. Lets not forget, he’s 22 or so years old, and has never lived in the real world, Mclaren should have to take the blame for this one. Of course Hamilton will go to the stewadrs with his boss, and go along with whatever the company he works for says. Once the media get thier claws in Hamilton will be the most hated man in the U.K no matter what he does on the track. It’s a shame, but i feel it’s all going down the pan for him, with the car, and now this, he may have to look at another team after all.
FIA (Mosley) is the problem indeed. Be aware Hamilton is only a early twenties boy under high pressure. And off course F1 can be compared with football. Been a long term fan of F1, been at races, testing, in the pits name it, but last few yrs they (the FIA) are screwing it! Prefer football nowadays.
Lets face it, lewis lied, and that is justification enough for him to get disqualified from the race. and for those who think that the fia never punishes ferrari, their drivers arent over enthusiastic like lewis and dont mouth off to the press at every given oppurtunity
It’s a confusing situation for anyone involved, except whoever wrote these rules. Imho Trulli passed Hamilton thinking he had a right to. He had to in order to resume the race at the position he held when the safety car came on, and Hamilton was ordered by McLaren to let him pass because of the same reason. It turns out that even if you drop a place accidentally during a safety lap, you can’t go back to your original position. Now we know.
But why lie, for the love of god? I cannot beleive that McLaren would stoop low enough to see an opportunity to screw over a fellow team and use it. I hope that’s not what happened, but it looks that way.
FIA (Mosley) is the problem indeed. Be aware Hamilton is only a early twenties boy under high pressure. And off course F1 can be compared with football. Been a long term an of F1, been at races, testing in the pits name it but last few yrs they (the FIA) are screwing it! Prefer football nowadays.
randy you are sad b…
to Nod and others in denial of Hamilton’s guilt, this is the quote of Martin Whitmarsh:
When asked if he felt Hamilton had also been truthful in the meeting, Whitmarsh said: “No. I think that Lewis was not entirely truthful, but we have spoken to Davey. He was the senior member of the team and they went into the situation together.”
If that is not an admission of lying (without using this specific term), then I don’t know what it is. so stop all this FIA-hates-Lewis talk and admit that Lewis is not a saint.
Just my 2pennies worth.
Lewis is 22!! Let’s not forget that. And lying under intense scrutiny and pressure is not the same as lying out of habit. Proven many times in a court of law, a confession under duress is not a good confession nor admissible in a court of law.
So how much duress was Lewis under and could he handle the pressure??? I don’t know, and I doubt we will ever know.
But let’s not jump to conclusions and condemn before all facts are availabe – leave taht the the FIA, they are very good at it
@Nod
OK, I don’t know how to put this and make myself clear.
I am not I fan of Alonso (but I admit that he is a great driver) he was my example since McLaren fans don’t like him but FIA and Ferrari have nothing to do with that.
Few examples:
when Shumi was hitting other drivers (that I don’t approve) he was the devil himself, when Louis does that he is simply agrresive,
or
when Coulthard (about 10 years ago)didn’t let Shumi pass him for a whole lap, deliberately going slow from the corners, resulting with a crash that cost Shumi his title, the comment was “well, he did not mean to”
or
when Louis because of his OWN MISTAKE didnt finish in China and lost title it was FIA’s fault….
Let me say one more thing, a real gentlemen would not say “he is afraid to go fast through corners and I’m not”, so many of the comments regarding bad manners and attitude Louis has only himself to blaim.
FIA = Ferrari idiots assured
FIA = Ferrari idiots assured
ferrari have looked at any replay just to see if they can get some points.
I admit lewis should not have lied. At all. But people cannot take chunks out of him because he had a fantastic drive, one of his best, he had entially finished only one place behind Trulli, who may of started in the pits for an ILLEGAL car, but had a much faster car.
But now the FIA are thinking about disqualifing Lewis for misleading the stewards, well what about the teams that have illegal cars, they get a slap on the wrist! It is just pathetic.
thats Disqualifing him from the drivers championship.
matt = miserable an.l total tranny
@Sharka : “to Nod and others in denial of Hamilton’s guilt, …”
My problem is simply that this makes absolutely no sense. It’s not a denial or otherwise of Lewis’s guilt. Maybe he did say something different, in which case he has been caught out and punished accordingly. I have no problem with that at all. If it actually happened.
… this is the quote of Martin Whitmarsh: “When asked if he felt Hamilton had also been truthful in the meeting, Whitmarsh said: “No. I think that Lewis was not entirely truthful, but we have spoken to Davey. He was the senior member of the team and they went into the situation together.”
That is reported as being Martin’s statement however, he is also reported as saying that “Lewis did not lie”. See here http://www.itv-f1.com/new s_article.aspx?id=45430 for details.
So who do we believe in this matter? Martin or Martin?
The problem is, we can sit here and pick and choose between quotes and find one or more to justify ‘our’ position. We simply don’t know the facts.
Regarding your comment that “If that is not an admission of lying (without using this specific term), then I don’t know what it is.”
“Economical with the truth” means telling the truth, just not the whole truth, it does not mean telling a lie. I may be economical with the truth when my wife asks an awkward question, but I do not lie.
“not entirely truthful” is also not an admission of lying. It is another way of saying that he told the truth, just not all of it.
Had he said “Lewis is a lying scumbag” then that would have been an admission, or at least an accusation, of lying.
You then said: “so stop all this FIA-hates-Lewis talk and admit that Lewis is not a saint.”
I’ll be the first to admit that Lewis is not a saint in the slightest, he is a competitive sportsman with a lot of driving talent, he is young and skilled. Mother Theresa is not a saint either for that matter.
I slagged off Lewis last year when he tonked into the back of Kimi in Canada in the pit lane just as I praised him when he won in Monaco.
I hope that I can be considered an honest fan who is willing to criticise and praise where appropriate. I certainly don’t hero worship Lewis or Jenson (or DC when he was driving) – my life won’t stop if Lewis or Jenson give up F1, for example.
None of the driver are saints. (My favourite driver was James Hunt – and he was most certainly not a saint!)
The FIA *does* hate Lewis or anyone else who is part of the McLaren team – check out the very strange decisions last year and from the look of things, it is set to continue this year. (Other opinions are available!)
I want to see racing, balls out racing, from drivers allowed to bloody well overtake and so on.
I don’t want to see a farce where the drivers tootle about, too scared to do anything in case the FIA get on their case and then after the race has finished, the FIA/Stewards make up the actual result. That is not racing, that’s wrestling.
Martin is also reported as saying that “Trulli was adamant that he had only made the illegal pass because Hamilton had slowed so much he believed the McLaren was retiring, and the stewards have now restored the Toyota driver to third.” (Quote from the above link)
And yet, later in the same article he reportedly says “If we look at the speed traces during that time and compare it to other periods under the safety car, then Lewis didn’t do anything abnormal”. So who is telling porkies? Martin? The telemetry? The reporter?
We will never know for sure.
Willing to be convinced otherwise of course, based on actual evidence and facts as opposed to third party reporting and ‘gossip’.
@Miloh: “OK, I don’t know how to put this and make myself clear. I am not I fan of Alonso (but I admit that he is a great driver) he was my example since McLaren fans don’t like him but FIA and Ferrari have nothing to do with that.”
I wasn’t implying that you were an Alonso fan but your example was one that I reacted to. Had it been Alonso/Flavio in this situation, My reactions and commenst would be the same, regardless of whether I was an Alonso fan or not. (And he is a greta driver – you don’t get to be a two time WDC without being a great driver.)
Cheers,
Nod.
About time real chests get punished, they were let off half the spying fine. They always accused Ferrari and Ferrari were always found to be legal. Serves them right!
*cheats
In what are allegedly his own words, as reported here : http://www.itv-f1.com/new s_article.aspx?id=45456 – Lewis has now apologised for “withholding information” but not for lying.
Cheers,
Nod.
@Schumisalo: About time real cheats get punished, they were let off half the spying fine. They always accused Ferrari and Ferrari were always found to be legal. Serves them right!
It is true that McLaren were in possession of Ferrari information. It is true that they were fined and docked all their points for the entire year.
It is also true that it was a Ferrari employee (Stepney) who sent the information to McLaren.
It is true that no action has, as yet, been taken against Stepney and Ferrari.
Make of that what you will.
Nice type by the way!
Cheers,
Nod.
After a lot of arguing of whether the FIA is prejudice, decides results after the race, is against Hamilton e.t.c. his team director came clean and said that they lied to FIA.
How can a team like McLaren be so stupid is beyond me.
Bugger! Hoist by my own petard.
I meant “Nice TYPO by the way”.
That’s what you get for trying to be funny.
Cheers,
Nod.
All Lewis supporters, please use the link and check it out. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/ en/headlines/news/detail/ 090403131258.shtml
Its ridiculous that they took all of Hamiltons points away its fair that they take away all of the constructors points but lewis drove really well to get those points.
I think that they should have give Trulli 3rd place back and given Hamilton the points for 4th but not given McLaren any of the constructors points
@Nexis: Beat you to it! Comment 215.
I also said earlier in post 186 : “Lets hope it pisses down this weekend and we get a good race in horrendous conditions.”
I’ve just found out that the rain in Malaysia and the darkness that goes with it, plus Bernie’s insistence for an evening race would make that a very dangerous situation.
I unreservedly take it back. Lets hope we get a great race *without* it pissing down. I’ve seen too many drivers die and I don’t want that to happen again, to anyone.
Cheers,
Nod.
i stand corrected. i have read the article that nexis posted and lewis did lie in the heat of the moment so that he did not lose his job. so he did deserve that punishment that it was given he is still young and a bit arrogant so i dont blame hiim for trying to gain some job security but McLaren should know better than that and Dave Ryan should really be suspended for a long time
what a retard = http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=2YtzQovKuxc&feature =related
it is all nonsense that all the officials seem to somehow hate hamilton. What a magnificant drive to start from 18th to finish 4th, then find out you are disqualified. Hamiltons season could be over all ready if he doesn’t do well in the next race on sunday. it is confusing for me and i don’t like the officials disqualifying hamilton on every damn race!
it’s rubbish because first trulli went off therfore hamilton overtook then trulli overtook hamilton therefore back to how it should of been that means that their should have been no penalties and it should of been left the way that it was
im a hamilton fan, was mclaren but why lie for one point. As someone said, people want to go to a race and see who wins, they dont want the results to change, they go to see who wins.
McLaren are probably the dirtiest team in F1 at the moment. In ‘07 they stole Ferrari’s design, and now they’re trying to lie their way up the results. Hamilton fits in well in this team; cutting corners and now speeding in the pitlane, in practice! Sort it out McLaren and get a good, honest driver like Prost again.
f1 has gone crap since lewis joined
races were decided in the race before him. NOW, it’s a different story
McLaren are stupid for trying to lie and get away with it. Deserves them right
I don’t have any sympathy for Mclaren – they are old hands at dirty tricks and knew exactly what they were doing but I feel sorry for Lewis – i’m not a fan of his but he was just being naive and stupid in this instance. He’s been punished enough – for his own good, I hope Lewis doesn’t stay with Mclaren his entire career.
Now that Mclaren have scape-goated Dave Ryan, will that be enough to prevent further repercussions?
I’ll admit it, I’m a Hamilton fan. But I also like Ferrari, Brawn, Button and Williams. So I shouldn’t be biased….On the face of it McLaren appear to have mislead not only the FIA but Hamilton too. I doubt the decision to be economical with the truth was Hamilton’s. He’s been let down by his team and I think they should be publicly apologising to him.
As for further punishment I think he’s suffered enough with saying sorry before the world’s press. I wouldn’t have thought any of his rivals want to see him banned for the season. Let common sense prevail and let’s get on with the season. And please, when I switch of the tv on Sunday don’t let me find the result has been changed. Please make any such decisions as quickly as possible.
THEY LIED FOR ONE POINT?
IDIOTS!
IDIOTS!!
IDIOTS!!!
I’m a fan of McLaren & Hamilton but I think I’ll be supporting BRAWN from now on.
Could not put it better Pendant.
McLaren could do with a Personnel Dept shake-up. Mike “Copy-shop” Coughlan and now Dave “Keep schtum, lad” Ryan? They should employ Bill Clinton next.
Stoss (#175) has a good point. All these recent rule changes are to make the racing better and make overtaking more likely. But a couple more bumps between cars? (ie. Vettel and Kubica) Uh-oh I feel a penalty coming on! Interestingly, Barrichello punted off Webber and had another bump, apparently unnoticed by the Melbourne stewards. Expect to see him penalised within the next month or so, when they get round to watching the race highlights.
Surely they need to get rid of Whitmarsh. The guy’s out of his depth. Lewis having to call a press conference to apologise for lying on team orders? A couple of days before the next race? And Whitmarsh thinks he’s capable of managing a team?
And yes, Lewis was an arse for going along with it like the ‘good little boy’ Martin and the team think he is, but he’s a young kid going to the stewards in the immediate aftermath of a v hot race and being told ’say this, say that’ – not good, but understandable, so it’d be right to cut him some slack, but the team let him (and themselves) down very badly, and Whitmarsh should be history.
brawn could probly do with more supporteres. not me.
And one point is vital sometimes, but i dont think it would matter to hamilton this year. Also he would have had another podium finish.
Anyone knows how one point can change anything, anyone who actually watches it.
Hamilton got lots of new viewers to f1, he brought in loads of youngsters, so hes obviously doing something right.
Lewis bumps into Kimi and Alonso- pure accidents. He lies to stewards- team orders. Lewis is an Innocent kid
lads lads lads
this is not a conspriacy about anyone
now, i like fearrai but i will agree that some decisions in the past have been a bit iffy but this is totally down to a McLaren C##k up.
they lied or ‘misled’ to the stewards and got a penealty rightly so.
We know they were wrong to lie
THEY know they were wrong to lie
so whats the discussion??
Firstly, I think the lie is in the part where McLaren said they are asking Mr Whiting about the matter.
Secondly, Toyota would try to avoid appealing any penalty imposed on them. They didn’t protest when they were dropped to the back of the grid, correct? And when their diffusers are considered illegal (which, as a Toyota fan myself, I hope doesn’t happen) they wouldn’t protest afterwards, I can imagine.
Thirdly, why in the world do I still care about this controversy when the Malaysian GP weekend would start soon/has started already? Let’s all just forget about this and look forward to quali.
Comment #224, I agree with you about Hamilton racing from 18th to 4th and then being disqualified; but what about Jarno Trulli driving from the pits to 3rd, and then being penalised, albeit initially?
Hamilton isn’t the only possible subject in F1, peoples. The only thing is that he is the main attraction to the sport.
(227) if you think McLaren stole any design elements from Ferrari during that whole deal, you have no understanding of F1.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: Even if McLaren had made an exact copy of the Ferrari from the data in question, it would have been an inferior car after the first few races. Any F1 fan with even a tiny bit of knowledge of how things work in this sport knows that the cars are constantly changing, and the mid-season and late-season cars are pretty much completely different than the cars that they start with.
Drop the Stepney-gate nonsense already. It makes you look simple. It was proven that only one bad-apple McLaren person saw the data and none of it was used to change the design of the McLaren.
Lewis won the WDC, get over it. Continuously shouting “cheaters” makes you sound childish.
And speaking of dirty tricks, you just don’t hear about Ferrari’s dirty tricks because the FIA makes sure you don’t. While it may not be a full-blown conspiracy, it’s undeniable that the FIA has a lot of financial incentive to listen/kiss the rear of Ferrari.
Ferrari could probably strap a full-on wing on top of the cockpit, but if it has mirrors on the ends of it, the FIA wouldn’t say a word.
It’s so silly. When McLaren does well, all the tifosi can say is “cheaters, cheaters, cheaters!” Grow up.
Go Brawn, go McLaren, and go away Trulli! And take your Trulli Train with you.
@Markus..er..if you’re going to call other people childish for calling Mclaren cheats, then at least be consistent and refrain from your childish swipes at Ferrari (No, i’m not a Ferrari fan either)AND your parting shot at Trulli – God forbid that the man is finding a new lease of life in the fast Toyota (he has looked a million miles from being that daydreamer recently
). Go Trulli!!
To Marcus:
If you think that it´s okay to steal another teams drawings of the cars weight balance and other dynamics you are crazy. If you are biased towards McLaren, it´s okay. If you don´t understand that McLaren is a shady organisation, then consider this:
a) It´s true that Whitmarsh has no clue what his staff is doing. Otherwise he would take control of what they do and this disaster wouldn´t have happened. He would have given strict orders about what to say to FIA.
b) They let their young driver to go and say whatever the hell he´s told to(he´s a grown man, if not, GROW UP LEWIS, be a man and tell the truth, you have your brains, don´t you?) and put the blame on this Dave dude, who i bet did only what he was told to by his superiors.
c) How is this Ferrari´s fault? If McLaren even for one season played by the rules, there would be no drama. The positive thing is that we can now (hopefully) leave this behind and move on. It´s going to be a great season.
Kugel, go read everything you can about “Stepney-gate.” There was no “stealing” involved by McLaren. There was no “stealing” involved period. There was a guy at Ferrari (who got his home raided, by the way) who made a little deal with Stepney (who thought his team would be happy with him “acquiring” some inside information, but McLaren showed him the door as soon as they knew what he was doing).
Here’s an analogy to put it simply for you: If you have a friend who robs a bank because he thinks the money will help you, are you at fault? Especially considering you had no idea what that friend was up to? Of course not.
But McLaren was punished to set an example for anyone in any team who would think of doing something similar. The message was that if you try to pull something like this, your team, not just you, will be severely punished, even if they had no idea what was going on.
It’s the same sort of system in place in military training. If an individual screws up, their entire squad will be punished, not just the individual. And I don’t think I have to explain the reasoning behind this.
And about the saying this or saying that part of your argument: You have a lot of growing up to do if you don’t believe that every driver is told exactly what to say when something like this happens. Lewis is a member of the McLaren TEAM. How can you not understand that he is obligated to do and say what his team considers is the best thing to do and say?
You can get all macho about it and say that he needs to be a man and tell the truth blah blah blah, but that is such an utterly naive viewpoint of the world of F1. F1 is a business before anything else.
Do you think that the high-ups in other multi-billion dollar businesses “tell the truth” all the time because it’s just the nice, sweet, right thing to do? Grow up.
And as for Ferrari’s role in all this, do you think it’s going to all get spelled out for you on formula1.com?
Bernie and the FIA know that F1 has thrived simply because Ferrari is a part of it (and has probably written a lot of checks to Bernie when F1 needed it to survive), and it’s just good business to act in such a way that keeps Ferrari happy.
Ferrari doesn’t even really need to say anything to the FIA or Bernie. They know the deal. They know that F1 would cease to be a financially viable business if Ferrari were to pull out because they weren’t getting what they want out of the sport.
Long story short, Ferrari always needs to be in the running for the championship (which translates to them being financially happy), or they would leave and F1 would die.
But then again, maybe you should keep you eyes closed and let F1 just be a pure sport that exists solely for the greatness of motorsport itself, if that’s what makes you happy.
Don’t read between the lines if it’s going to make you sad in the end.
And about my Trulli statements: I stand by them. He’s always been a great qualifier, but if you’ve watched F1 for long, you’d know that the “Trulli Train” is a very real thing. He gets in front of people through pitstop strategy or plain luck, and he holds them up. People that are seconds faster than him. That’s a fact.
I’ve read interviews from other teams where they explicitely say that they modify pitstop strategies just so they don’t get stuck behind Trulli.
The FIA have been trying to not let Lewis Hamilton win the championship since he started in 2007!…He did some how win though…even though the FIA gave him counterless penalties and grid place drops!. I am seriously beginning to think that the FIA are penalising Hamilton because they know he has the excellent racing pedigree of Michael Schumacher!
I mean, the first Grand prix of 2009 was Albert Park in Australia. Trulli ran wide on the gravel trap during the safety car, Hamilton HAD to overtake otherwise he would of caused an incident by stopping on the inside of a corner. And Hamilton gave Trulli his place back before the next corner.
When will the FIA shut up, stop complaining, sit their fat arses down and realise that their is going to be contact!
Trulli ran off, Hamilton passed Trulli, Hamilton let Trulli pass, Hamilton lied. In that sequence of events it’s a bit difficult to find Hamilton or McLaren innocent.
this is fresh from the F1 official website, http://www.f1.com:
The FIA has released the following statement:
“Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been invited to appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Wednesday, 29 April, 2009, to answer charges that, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, it
- on 29 March, 2009, told the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix that no instructions were given to Hamilton in Car No. 1 to allow Trulli in Car no. 9 to pass when both cars were behind the safety car, knowing this statement to be untrue;
- procured its driver Hamilton the current World Champion, to support and confirm this untrue statement to the stewards;
- although knowing that as a direct result of its untrue statement to the stewards, another driver and a rival team had been unfairly penalised, made no attempt to rectify the situation either by contacting the FIA or otherwise;
- on 2 April, 2009, at a second hearing before the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix, (meeting in Malaysia) made no attempt to correct the untrue statement of 29 March but, on the contrary, continued to maintain that the statement was true, despite being allowed to listen to a recording of the team instructing Hamilton to let Trulli past and despite being given more than one opportunity to correct its false statement;
- on 2 April, 2009, at the second stewards’ hearing, procured its driver Hamilton to continue to assert the truth of the false statement given to the stewards on 29 March, while knowing that what he was saying to the stewards was not true.”
In response, McLaren issued the following press release:
“McLaren acknowledges receipt of an invitation to appear at an FIA World Motor Sport Council meeting in Paris on April 29, received this afternoon. We undertake to co-operate fully with all WMSC processes, and welcome the opportunity to work with the FIA in the best interests of Formula 1.
“This afternoon McLaren and its former sporting director, Dave Ryan, have formally parted company. As a result, he is no longer an employee of any of the constituent companies of the McLaren Group.”
is it me or is this all rubbish
They got caught thats the problem. I dont belive that in the past preasent or future F1 teams havnt bent the truth and not been caught.
Dave Ryan gave 30 yrs great service to F1 and he is fired for this its stupid. Max get photoed in the papers with 5 ladies spanking him and he keeps his job but Rayn losses his for damaging F1. Its stupid Ryan and Max have done so much for F1 and we should reward them. Max’s reward should be more time leading the FIA and Ryan should be seeing his job at Mc’s till he wants to rest at home feet up and enjoying his retirement. Please F! wake up and stop the Mclaren which hunt let them off with a hand slap. Dont give them the benifit of the doubt for a few years but let Ryan back and lets go racing.
As for Lewis he is a grown man he has been brought up well by his family. He knows right from wrong and regardless of Ryan telling him what to say he knew it was wrong. Why is he differnt from Ryan why has he still got his job. If we saked all the people that have lied at work how many more millions on the dole would we have!!!!
Please F1 wake up forget this issue let Ryan back let lewis concentrate on racing. Mc on getting a good car and lets see the best ever year of F1.
In case your wondering in not a Mc fan. Im a life long Tifosi but what I want is to see great racing and this politics is messing taking peoples eyes off some of the best races in years
poor lewis hamilton, he’s under so much pressure from the press and public even though it’s not his fault. hopefully it doesn’t effect him in future races.
I can’t believe Hamilton was made to lie. I know he could have stopped himself, but he was made to. Had he been left to himself he would still have got the points. That guy who got axed got the right punishment. Just ease up on Lewis!
This whole thing was hugely unfair on Lewis, his team told him to lie, and now he has no points. Nice one McLaren, you’ve ruined your season already.
Boo Hoo, poor bloody Lewis. He made the choice to lie. Nobody held a gun to his head. He could have told the truth & kept his integrity. The worst the team could do is give him a crap car for the year. Lewis is young & could afford to write off a season. He would easily get a drive for a new team next year, he does after all have the talent. Having integrity to go with it would just be a bonus for a team.
Sorry boys , this a sport… sports have rules….. to make it competitive and fair…the first rule in any sport is to beat your opponent using the same rules he is working with…. break these rules…. and you will be penalised …..an experienced team like mclaren know this and so does LH…. why take this chance its not like you wont get caught… even their conversations are of public record … in my opinion they messed up big time …move on ….get over it …. get even using these same rules !!!!
Some people say that the Lewis doesn’t care anymore right now, however then again, some people say that he’s threatening McLaren and saying that he’s going to quit. So… I really don’t know.
I agree with comment 254.
It is F1 gone pearshaped
Are they Racist to others?
Hamilton Disqualified? have the gon mad
IAM NOT BOTHERED BECAUSE HES LET US DOWN AND SO HAS JENSON BUTTON.