After Lie-gate and Diffuser-gate comes We’re-not-racing-in-a-two-tier-F1-gate, as a number of teams have started ganging up on the FIA with big dirty threats of quitting the show next season.
It began with Ferrari’s warning (which locked them into that tussle with Max Mosley) and now Toyota and both the Red Bull teams are making noises about doing a bunk should the proposed two sets of regulations stay put.
Worse than that, squillionaire Red Bull boss Dietrich Mateschitz has also hinted that all of the manufacturer teams will follow suit.
It started kicking off when the big F1 budget cap rules were announced the other week – those who sign up for the capped fee will be afforded greater technical freedoms than those who don’t, effectively chopping the grid into two classes.
Bernie Ecclestone must be doing his Andy Warhol-like head in at the moment. There’s no way he wants to see an F1 grid with only a handful of teams lining up at the beginning of next season.
But this furore is playing into Mosley’s hands – he’s a master of subterfuge. I reckon he’ll step up and say, ‘alright lads, calm down. All you have to do is sign-up to this ‘ere budget cap, and we’ll give you all one set of technical regulations. See? Easy.’
They’ll set it at say £100m next year, then lower it by £10m a year until it reaches a more manageable £60m come 2014. An idea that initially might have been difficult to sell, but in light of the current dissatisfaction would now look like a kebab to a drunkard.
Max gets the budget cap he wants, Bernie keeps all the players in the game – plus some new ones – and the teams all get a level playing field to bat about on.
Everyone’s happy.
Even the fans?
Thats a very interesting insight. However I don’t think a £100m budget cap would be sufficient for some of the new teams looking to join.
F1 Should Let Brawn Gp To Win
Yea, i agree, that shud sort it all out, and hopefully make nxt season a bit more even. Seems this years changes arnt working, 4 from 5 for Button, its fast becoming a rout!
I completely disagree with budget caps. the whole point of f1 is to go as fast as possible as consistently as the laws of physics allow and then the technology drips down to us peasants. i feel as much money as wished should be spent as long as they can prove it will help us at some point.
nope. This is F1, not Le Mans. There’s no point – it’s a world championships. Being champion in one tier doesn’t make you F1 world champion. It makes you champion of that tier. It just wouldn’t be the same.
Max is a tw*t and needs to go back to the S&M dungeon he crawled out of.
I agree with #’s 4&5. If you’re in for the big dump, take a seat. If not: scram, peewee. There’s only one F1 championship. One set of rules, Max. It’s F1, not F to the Nth. I’m still watching, but next year? I don’t know.
I agree with 4,5,6. The teams may well band together and make a new Formula, one with almost no rules…could this be the end of F1, and the start of something new?
They’ve really gotta sort this out properly. I think a £50million cap would be sufficient for new temas, and may keep the current teams happy.
Looking at if from Ferrari’s point of view, if they were under a £30million cap they wouldn’t have been able to make all of the changes they did for Spain, and they’d still be around 2secs behind the rest of the field.
Seriously though, they gotta sort this mess out
Cosworth also hinted a while ago that they had 8 new teams negotiating a deal for next year. Do the math – 7 teams lost, 8 teams gained. If that is the case then, sadly, I don’t think Max will see this as a threat. It all depends on whether he thinks that the importance of Ferrari, McLaren and that is all that great (which it is).
This is reminding me an awful lot about the CART split in the mid ’90s.
One of the major selling points in F1 is its technology development. The sport is all about pushing the boundary’s of what is technically possible within the regulations.
This budget cap goes more than the Bank, it caps innovation which eventually trickles down to us joe public. This sort of thing in the long-run affects us all whether we like it or not.
In a world of governments telling what us to do, it is about time the bloody FIA to stop meddling in the worlds most sophisticated, glamorous sport. This season so far has been great but anymore poking around, people will leave.
For me, F1 is suppost to be the pinacle of automotive engineering. The cars are equipt with state of the art technology and go faster than ever before.
Although i see the need for F1 to become more sustainable and dare i say, “Green” (Dont believe in GW but they do drink alot of oil!); I disagree with the 2-tier system and the ridiculously low £40m. I know that for new teams, prices have to drop so they can be competetive, but £40m…come on!
I strongly disagree with the split tier as F1 is suppost to be around the same rules and regs, which this system isnt!! But at least you get technical freedome with the budget, then we’d get to see how high they can rev (not the “leisurely” 18,000rpm of current!)
And what about all of this faff about the British Grand Prix next year? I’ve came up with a solution: http://www.facebook.com/g roup.php?gid=80656185969
For the love of GOD, stop changing the rules every year.
seriously -> STOP.
What about the “most wins wins” regulation that they snuck back into the rules for 2010. Is that being contested as well?
nice idea!
what i find rather amusing is the name of the red bull boss…
Mateschitz
i don’t know how it’s supposed to be pronounced but it’s very funny the way i do it..:D
are Aston Lola and USF1 actually gonna join next jear now then?
don’t know what all the fuss is about, there has been a 2 or even 3 tier system for years!
604Yarks, from what I have heard, most-wins-wins has been scrapped.
this is rubbish to be honest. I mean the new season is amazing, why cant they just keep it as it is?
and you have a good point jackie, i really want to see some new cosworth engines back in the grid as well
One rule for all..
With the FIA thinking cap on, how is this for an idea- the number of laps of a race per team depends on their budget, as a percentage of the budget of the richest team, eg. Brawn does half the laps of Ferrari to win a race…The scary thing about this irony, is that this idea may seem phisable in the minds of the FIA fools….
how can there be winners in 2-tier F1 it would end up as ‘best in catagory’…rubbish
Someone please get Moseley a clue.
F1 is not about who can do the best job on a tight budget.
The sport has grown to massive heights through its ridiculously overpaid drivers, motor homes the size of Scotland and the most expensive cars in the world flying around at 190 mph.
I am aware that some teams may fall due to the recession but you cant just punish the teams with all the money because of that. Get rid of the KERS nonsense for 2010: thats an instant saving already.
I like the idea of having new teams on the grid for 2010, but not in place of Ferrari and the likes. We grew up to the heritage of Ferrari, they have such a massive fan base, to lose them would significantly reduce the number of viewers. Apparently, no one appears to have told Moseley how big Ferrari is to F1. Yes Formula 1 would survive without them, but it would no longer be F1. And I say this as an unbiased Vettel and Red Bull fan.
And is it me or is quali turned into a joke?
Whats all this telling us the car weights and having a car adjusted pole sitter. What ever happened to quickest guy is on pole. I liked the old 12 laps, 1 hour, get to it. No saving tyres and strategic fuel loads.
To me, its stupid having Q3 slower than Q2 and Q1. The guys that make it into Q3 should be having a no fuel, new tyres battle to the end. 10 mins, quickest on pole. We never know who the quickest driver is any more. There’s always ifs, buts and maybes. Anybody here agree with me??
Sorry if this turned into a rant. I got on a bit of a roll.
I think we might be on a brink of brakeaway series.
FOTA is muscling with FIA + Bernie and everyone wants to have it their own way.
In a way it seems to be long, strategic war game.
Power is shifting in F1 and no one knows if it is going to be evolution or revolution.
Small teams are sitting quiet. They probably depend on Bernies handouts and seem not to have guns to fight.
Big teams are tired of giving way to Maxes increasing creativity,and superior intelect reflected in this big mess. He is staying one step ahead of FOTA (for now). But I think he is well aware that there is short way to greate F1 equal to GP2 (about 5 seconds a lap
And to keep F1 as this well worn ‘pinacle of motorsport’ he needs Ferrari as well as Lola (or whoever). Simply by puting such a outrageus and strring regulations on the table, he opens door for milder version to be accepted by teams without any strugle.
So angry F1 fans. Fear not. By the end of this season you will forget two-tier and all exit threats. Next season you will get F1 still standing as aproud knight. Just in a bit cheaper armour.
Is it just me or should F1 be the pinnacle of motor sport and with that. no caps, less constraints – how fast can you go round a circuit. If teams are moaning about cost f8$k off to indie cart and race in circles
Personally i understand that a budget cap could be used purely to make F1 fairer to small teams but every one knows how it ends up as soon a there is a wedge in the door at 100mill in ten years its down to 15 were watching cars going round tracks slower then they are now and it will not help us normal people through drip down technology in our ford focus’s. sport is not meant to accept the current climate its suppose to beat it with a 2×4. WE WANT ONLY THE BEST AND THAT MEANS LOTS OF MONEY. (anyway i thought the whole point of changing the rules was to help the tots and crumble giants look at BMW and Williams completely change positions)
Max + Bernie have ruined F1. Hope they are proud of themselves.
oh cock, as james would say. budget caps are strange. you want competition, not everyone to be the same. thats boring. then everything is up to the drivers. there really wouldnt be any constructors titles and whatnot. you need to be able to spend as much money as you want/ need, or else it takes away from the enjoyment.
if Ferrari get the Fiat group in on it (they have a lot of power it seems lately), and say, the BMW and Mercedes teams in, they could start a great open wheeler competition that would exceed the awesomeness of F1, which is just going down hill i think. i want to see cars go faster, not be restricted…
If mercedes where to leave, who would supply engines to Brawn and Force India.
If the bigger teams leave, where are the independet teams gonna get engines, I dont think it would be much fun to watch, if every car had the same engine, Cosworth or whoever else.
Max has it backwards…. instead of hurting the big teams with a crop across the butt, why not help the teams who have smaller budgets? 40 – 60 million get unlimited testing. 60 -100 get less inseason testing but all the off season they can afford.
Money can’t make a fast car, it helps yes, but give the guys with less to start more and they will become big teams. F1 needs new teams, so help them get there not hurt who is already there. A ferrari should be made with unicorn blood and moon rocks.
Max needs to go.
Bernie needs to go.
Why have budget caps? A simple costs as a percentage of revenue (say 70%) equation would be enough.
Or since Ferrari is backed by the Mid-east, costs as a percentage of inward cash flow would be good too.
It would be backwards to implement this as not all teams are equal and it would be unfair to punish the bigger teams simply because they are bigger.
I’m thinking if BMW, Toyota, Ferrari leave and decide to go down a rung to GP2, boy what kind of development would we see there.
It’s just ridiculous that teams can’t spend what they want. If they go broke then it’s their fault. And if some can’t come in and make the grade then too bad.
This isn’t The Socialist Formula 1 you know, or is it?
That aside, cost savings on transportation and other logistics should be looked into for the weaker teams. Say get them some fund raising or welfare fund.
They are ruining Formaula 1.
Someone make an interesting point, in that if the big players really do get pissed off, they could create their own series with their own regulations, then Bernie and Max would be left heading up an ‘old f1′ with a bunch of small teams and less technological advances. I believe the best, most advanced motor sport series will be wherever Ferrari and Maclaren go, closely followed by Braun, Toyota, Red Bull and Renault. Not much left for Max and Bernie to play with then.
I think people commenting here are completely missing the point of why teams are saying they won’t join the cap rules. If you actually read what they are saying, it’s not because they believe the monetary cap will also cap innovation it’s because they realize that if one joins the cap then they would also essentially be attaining the ability to build faster cars. Even, I believe, the BMW head has said that simply being allowed to use variable wing setups would make the capped teams much faster. The only reason that the status quo teams don’t want to join the cap is because they won’t be able to pay heinously large salaries in the long run. Ultimately, the cars will be faster, and because of more lenient rules, the technology will probably be more useful for actual road cars. But organizations entrenched in certain ways of operating rarely want their cart upset by anyone, thus the brutal whining that is likely to ensue.
That’s a much better idea – cap everyones budget at a reasonable amount and ease them in.
One question for everyone who’s moaning about the trickle down of technology from F1 to road cars: what technology has moved from F1 to a normal everyday road car in the last decade? A 430 Scud’s ‘box doesn’t count as normal.
I believe that the budget cap will increase innovation. Rather than fixing a problem with a large amount of money, teams will have to think of a way to fix it with a fraction of that. Innovation through adversity.
Ferrari will never leave F1. It’s as important to them as they are to F1. Enzo would also turn in his grave if they stopped, and Luca would get lynched by half of Italy.
A break away series also won’t happen. They (Bernie and Max) know that’s no threat after the whole GPMA thing a few years back.
And to whoever said something about teams moving to GP2 and imagine the development there….none. They’d be buying a car off the shelf.
Oh and Jamie’s right about Bernie. He’ll have the teams back in his pocket by the end of summer.
F1 is changing year in and year out, and if teams like ferrari or toyota can’t accept that then good riddance, and welcome USF1, Lola and other teams that come to f1. Mosley and Ecclestone is doing teams a favour by implementing a budget cap
Jenson Button to win the World title and bring back David Coulthard back to F1.
who thought that Button lapping Hamilton was great to see?
Break away series might be closer than you think. The way the FIA is ruining the sport over the last few yrs will make board of directors reconsider twice before the invest money. The only change they should have made for this yr is back to slicks (the grooved tires always have been a sick FIA idear).
Look at what we now have, ugly cars, boring races, empty grandstands, sponsors leaving the game (even this winning cars are still ‘virgin white’).
This mr.Mosley should never have been in that job for such a long time, rule nr one for such positions, it should never last longer than let’s say 5 yrs.
One budget for all….sounds nice but why one set of regulations? If you’re going to put a lid on the spendings, that should be it. no more!
Give ‘em a £100m to play with and let them do what they want with it. I know it sounds a bit chaotic but think about it…..every manufacturer has a full license to create their own beast anyway they like as long as they keep their wallets under FIA scrutiny.
Different cars, differnt aerodynamics, different almost-everything. Every team will have certain strong points which means that they’d all have a chance to excel at certain circuits more suited to their car, that means unpredictability and more teams running for the top prize…….now that’s an appealling notion, and it should stop people moaning about F1 getting dull.
I know it’s an ambitious plan and that I’ve probably missed out on dozens of technicalities but I think with a bit of fine tuning by the experts here at TG, we can make a good plan for the budget cap……or atleast a good presntation for pitching the idea to Bernie and Max.
I also noticed a few people suggesting different budget bands ranging from 30m-100m. With all these different budget bands and the specific guidelines tied with them, you’d need a handbook explaining everything before actually watching the race.
It should all be simplified, the Last thing F1 needs are ‘complicated solutions’.
Get Jean Todt in as head of the FIA, Mosely has been there far too long. Is there not some sort of election for this thing or is Max just there till he gets fed up/dies.
F1 needs technical freedom alongside a reasonable budget cap to keep going. At the moment they’re trying to kerb costs by telling teams what they can and can’t do which is just restricting innovation. All the teams realise in the current climate some sort of budget cap is needed but it should apply to all the teams and be fairly reasonable, not a quarter of the smallest teams current budget.
The cars are safe enough now, the FIA can let some of the speed restrictions go and hoepfully we’ll see the cars developing until they have the drivers right on the very limit of what a human can cope with.
this is ridiculous what wrong with F1 the way it is now and if u introduce a budget cap you’ll lose the exitment of the underdog team there will never be another brawn Gp moment just dont introduce a budget cap mak mosly is a sneaky B*****d. Damon hill jackie stewart head of FIA?
to many rules make F1 boring.
how about…
engine size 1 litre, max fuel load 10 gallons and no driver aids.
off you go lads a do your best.
i like the idea of a budget cap but the restrictions on non capped teams is too harsh.
#33 From what the BBC F1 team said about the budget caps was that the £40 million limit DIDN’T include driver’s salaries, tyres and engines so you could still the situation where teams are paying double figure (x £1million) salaries to drivers who have the right surname but not the talent to match (Ralf and Jacques) whilst ignoring half-decent drivers who need that big break to prove their mettle. There has always been a big difference between the top teams and the minnows but the budget cap won’t alter the status quo. Max and Bernie need to take a reality pill and early retirement or the teams need to break away and form their own Formula. And forgive me if I’m wrong but isn’t Bernie british? If so he should be doing everything he can to keep the Britsh GP (and the input that Brits have into F1) and not trying to destroy it forever! grumble over – sorry!
i think that brawn should just die and it’ll make the races more interesting
comment 21, Rayz, I do agree:Q3 does not make sense!
A lot of things in F1 should not have changed.
Adaptions for safety: yes, Changing basic rules:no
Imagine if one should do same in any other sports.
Even FIA boss Balestre respected the game but see what happened with this Mosley and all his funny ideas. Go back to the ‘91 (that is when he started as Fia boss) cars and rules, adapt to the current safety measures and respect/protect the sport and the heritage!
scala we already have that it’s called moto gp :L get max out thats what i say and i think that ferrari and a few others are thinking. he mite b a very smart man could even be brilliant in an educated way but he is also a dick! some were along the way like his dear old dad he got it into his head that he knows best and no 1 not even the longest runnin team in the sport knows better, the maggie thatch of f1 i thinks and when som1 gets that kind of power trip goin on in there heads then its the people that pay! think about it the main loss is going to be the work force in the teams not the owners nor the drivers but the bread and butter employee’s look at it from that side of things i think max jus has to go end of!!!
as a racing fan, i wouldn’t be upset if that’s what is gonna happen – a budget cup for ALL the teams. it would mean more competition, more show, etc etc etc.
but….
we’re talking about formula1… and that “formula” means also technical innovation, engineering research, etc etc… which cannot cope with a “budget cup”.
however it will be, please DON’T divide F1 in two different tiers!!! that would be even worst than now
I think they should have no rules or limited rules, would’nt you like to see a F1 car with a jet engine try to overtake one with a tank tracks!!!
Budget Cap is the best way to find out the best drivers. Button was a no hopper until this year with Hamilton reigning supreme. The current shake up has proven how much difference a good car makes. he budget cap should even out the cars more putting the championship back into the hands of the best drivers. In this case Fonsi would win all the time. At Renault he has been stiffled by teams with bigger budgets.
personally im sick of how the FIA are running things. first it was the complete dissapointment of KERS development now the top 4 and most exciting teams have lost all their money and edge on something that was useless. then came the diffuser row and now this. im sorry but i watch F1 to see epic fights between ferrari and mclaren or bmw or renault. not this crap excuse for f1. and just to clarify one thing im not a brawn GP hater they deserve the position they are in and i conragulate them for all the hard work,
As far as I’m concerned F1 has always been the one sport apart from horse racing where it’s been exceptionally extravagant, drivers earning big, large sponsorships etc. etc. to see that go would be a bummer I think!! On the other hand if they can budget cap so other small teams can join whilst keeping the big F1 big dogs interested and therefore make it a closer contest between the teams then that would make for an all more exciting prospect.
If Button wins this season we will have had two entirely different brits from two entirely different backgrounds win back to back over the last two years, awesome or what??
FIA is making a joke of itself changin rules as they do. They are going back to the 90s now… please, just think before change anything.
Mosley out now !!! FIA elections to the presidency !!
Bernie shouldn´t even exist!!! WTF is he??? He owns TV rights? OK he´ll be rich, but he shouldn´t be ruling the sport, just getting rich with it.
I’m getting tired of typing ‘ARRRGH!’ into this blog, the letters A, R, G and H are all worn-out on my keyboard! The FIA really need to stop changing this and reducing that because some teams have already had enough. If this continues the sport probably won’t exist thanks to the FIA annoying everyone. Just change some rules every new season and everyone will be happy, don’t suggest changes throughout the season!
i agree with rayz on qualifying but i don’t understand why the teams want to pay more money! its stupid, you can have a f1 team for 250m or 60m sounds like a no brainer
The F1 boss has gone mad, he should see a doctor!
Ferrari have just said they won’t race 2010 if the budget cap goes ahead… http://news.bbc.co.uk/spo rt2/hi/motorsport/formula _one/8044860.stm
Ferrari have officialy announced that they will not be competing in the F1 2010 season if the budget cap rules are to come into force.
It will be a disaster if ferrari were no longer in F1, I will probably stop watching F1 if this happens.
Jenson Button. Last ever F1 world champion.
it is proved that a real face shows when things go bad…
that applies to hamilton, and you know-i am glad
his inability to help in developing a car ads to mclaren headache. last years car was improved 2007 car by drawings from ferrari and fernando alonsos technical ability working with engineers.
and he is much better man and nearly everybody on the grid have achieved what they have by doing a hard work and starting from 0. so hammy can trow toys wherever he wants, but there is the same line for everybody!!!
go Jenson Button!!!
Mosley OUT!!!
…Todt or Dennis or Vatanen for presidents.
Quit yer bawling, sure F1 is all about fast cars, but you seem to forget these cars weigh 600k and have anything up to 900bhp behind the driver. Power to weight ratios are off street powers, except for that Merlin engined thing that is as long as a lorry with trailer.
The cars you see this year are the cars that should have been for a long time, not the cars from last year or the year before or the year before that, the budget cap is to level the playing field, also, it is because of the banks that the cap is in place, not Mr Mosley, abhorrent amounts of money has been thrown at chunks of metal and rubber for way too long, not that £40m is not abhorrent, it is, it’s just a little less abhorrent. Would you buy this car for £40m? £20m even? A car should cost no more than £250,000 (especially a single seater). You smash it up you get a new one, you break it, you get replacement parts, you end up with money to invest in newer improved parts that are within certain restrictions.
Imagine this, you’re at the lights and some granpa is in the ‘invalid blue’ three wheeler sat next to you, you’re thinking, pah, ain’t worth flooring it for more than 2 seconds on pullaway, I’ll be clear of him before I’ve crossed the junction, little do you know that the three wheeler has got a little something under the rear donated to him from a very very rich uncle who is even older than granpa, lights change and suddenly the blue thing has blasted away from the lights in a blur and a cloud of smoke, all because of a little something a very very rich uncle gave.
Now imagine you are Ferrari or Williams and the blue three wheeler is in fact white for the most part and the uncle is Mr Mosley, we now have a race, not a showcase. What would be the point of watching a 2 horse race (not that it isn’t one this year..)
Changing the format happens every year, some formats are liked, some are not. Get used to it, its going to change again next year, that’s why it is called Formula 1.
I like change. If it was always the same it would bore me.
…hammy probably vomited when Jenson passed on the finish line with him having another lap to do…
ps: its a million budget in 2010 and there will only be 13 teams .
i think that the fotm or formula 1 team managers (team heads like ross brawn) should deside on the rules and get most of the money not the other way round
they want a price cut well give the teams more money they get about 5% of f1`s money made
Did anyone hear Mark Webber say the “f” word when Button,Baricello and him were in the common room ?
I bet Webber was actually absolutely peed of when Button won!! At least now we now what F1 drivers think of each other!!
I wonder if Aston Martin really will join in 2010 ?
I wonder if they’ll employ Daniel Craig. At least he’d be able to act about liking Mad Max and Bernie !
I agree with 385. Moseley should be kicked out along with Bernie Ecclestone!
Perhaps Schumacher should be President and Coulthard should take Bernie’s job !
Anyone agree ???
Please no, please no, not only three..
or how about the stig as president he’d be more interesting
@59 and 60
They said they will not enter cars under currently proposed regs. It is not as much about cap as about two tier or rather whole way it is beeing done.
Of course it is not easy for small teams to compete with giants, but that what F1 is about. Look at Brawn Max.
It is even more difficult if you have to suck half or three quaters of your workforce and scale down huge operations as Mc or Horse people. And they are beeing asked to do it over night + no one asks them if or how they want to do it.
I am looking forward to 29th may. We will see how many teams enter next season.
The only prediction: If you see the date moved it means that ballance of power is shifting and teams are having their way.
Dear Max & Bernie; Hahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
PS: Why the F is there an ad (Comment no. 49)
some don’t get the concept of F1, it’s all about engineering and tech. I’m really not interested watching 15 teams running the same underdeveloped and limited car, i want to see 10 teams running their best tech, and the world champ driver should be on the best car. It’s Mclaren’s fault they didn’t build a decent car so my respects for Brawn team and their drivers…
I’m no fan of budget caps as if you can’t afford F1, why participate?
How about this though:
Every team gives a suitable and fair budget cap they’d be happy with. The FIA then averag out the numbers and the average value is the actual budget cap. This way at least 5 teams would stay.
Lets not also forgot 3 teams may try and join F1 at the end of this season.
i think that bernies gone to far this time hehas to be stoped before he ruins f1 forever
I don’t understand…..
why it hapends??!
if teams want to spent money – why not!!!!!!!!
it is bad??! -I dont understand…..
ferrari rule f1
I thought that the whole idea of F1 was to go as fast as you can, and do it with whatever means you have at your disposal!! None of this, NO testing, NO wind tunnel, and whatever else Mr. MAD Max(NO FUN) Mosley wants to do!!!
Let the best team with the best car and the best driver win Max!!!!
Don’t let the Championship be won by whomever has the best Accountant !!!!
40 million pound limit. Here in the US some of our CEO’s make more than that a year. Maybe Bill Gates will sponsor a few teams.
WE THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN TOPGEAR WEBSITE PEOPLE I IMPLORE YOU TO CREATE A HUGE ON-LINE PETITION TO GET RID OF MAX AND BERNIE!!! LEAD US TOPGEAR LEAD US START THE REVOLUTION VIVE LA F1!!!
i think this new rule is stupid because this sport about making the best car possible for all types of circuits. i Don’ t there should be a salary cap we don’t really need small companies in F1. F1 is for the big companies. this is not some small race. F1 is one of the biggest sports and there are too many changes. I think they should take out a lot of rules.
I’d say it’s about time the FIA, Mosley, and Ecclestone started listening to the people that really matter, Teams, Drivers and Fans. Fair play to Ferrari for having the balls to air their opinion (even though it seems a bit like dummy-spitting), I hope more teams quickly follow suit so they can come to a better arrangement for everyone. After all, we dont pay hundreds of pounds for our F1 tickets to see go-karts shuffling around.
I agree with #83 – Where do we sign?…
Too far if you ask me this season is competitive enough as it is why would you want to cap the costs.
F1 is suppose to be the best cars possible capping the costs would make them not the best and surely this would create a large loss of jobs in this industry which would be bad for the UK and all the countries where these teams are based.
Please keep it like it is ignore Max Mosley
Whats the first thing that comes into your mind wen u think Formula 1???
Ferrari!
Most of the drivers in F1 now all have an ambition 2 drive for ferrari cause ther the greats team eva. Also drivers used 2 be setting lap records evry year but now its hardly Eva, y?
Cause the FIA have turned F1 borin and they knw it that y they trying 2 make it exciting again!!!!!!
Im sure F1 can survive with out more teams for some more years?
They ll take away the most precious of Formula 1: PRESTIGE. If its just some cart sport like every other league, don t call it Formula-1 . Call it best of the rest Formula. Yeah, they want to make things cheaper.Budget c(r)ap,no refueling,(the races get shorter). Less TV-time to pay, etc.etc.etc.
But Tickets to a race won t get cheaper, i assure you,my fellow motorsport fans.All those millions put into r&d for Antidot brakes and Traction control,active suspension,or even Flappy paddles. (invented for the F-1,and tested there),saved probably thousands of lives worldwide in common production cars.
And hence WORTH EVERY PENNY.
So, with reducing the freedom to develop further improvements,Bernie and Mosley should actually both be convicted as attempted MURDERERS And should be hanged upside down on the starting grid.
preferably next race =D
BUT MOSLEY MIGHT ACTUALLY LIKE IT MORE ROUGH =P
Bernie should be shot. Max should be hung drawn and quartered (on the other hand, better not, Max might like it) and Murry Walker should be put in charge with James May as his side kick.
What is happening to Motor sports? A Budget cap on F1, chicanes on the Mulsanne at Le Mans, Spec car racing in Nascar and the IRL. What true race fans want is a top series with top drivers and top cars. If I watch any professional sporting event it is to see the best athletes in the world doing what they do best. That is what I expect from Formula 1.
F1 is getting too controversial and too boring lately! Better to abolish it and create a totally new motorsport that will parallel it but sans all the problems it had!
Just a few comments :
1. Brawn GP spent 300 million last year as Honda to develop this years car. So no they have done nothing on the cheap.
2. The world has gotten to safety conscious, the best example being the uk where i believe recently an adult could not buy a set of teaspoons????? no one likes to hear about injuries or fatal accidents, but with the level of technology today, the cars can be faster yet yet probably safe.
3. max should crawl back into his s&m dungeon. anyone for the flogging??
First its not a 2 Tier system. The cars still have the same technical restrictions in most areas, engine size, no turbos, tyres, aero dynamic restrictions, weight restrictions.
However if they opt for the budget cap they will be allowed to essentially take off the little black box. Being what limits the engine revs, KERS power, how many times they can change the angle of the front wing.
However being allowed to have a higher reving engine is not always a bonus, it will increase the wear thus decreasing reliability. Giving the driver the ability to change the front wing constantly would help out, as long as the driver remains concentrated on the race. Still its more moving parts, possibly less reliable.
Also think about how the teams will have to balance their budget, they cannot waste the entire 40 million before the season starts. Also the cheaper it costs to produce these new technologies the faster they can trickle down to the public. Also it is getting more teams to enter F1.
I really wish I could have seen the 70’s and 80’s F1 races. When cars were dramatically different. What would really interest me the most would be to have a F1 race on the Nordscheilfe, I highly doubt that it would be feasible. Its complexity would really put drivers and cars alike to the test.
Another note. Maybe a new formula is needed. Why not push for electric motors. Yes the noise is gone and all the complexity. However the amount of torque these cars could push would be dramatic. A 200bhp brushless electric motor can output 400ft/lbs of torque, while a 200bhp ICE only produces 100-120 ft/lbs.
Also batteries are useless. Capacitors are the way to go. Capacitors can charge up in minutes and discharge even faster. There is a company in the United States located in Texas called EEStor. They are using their capacitors in an electric car from canada called the ZENN, it should release in the next year or so. It can charge up in 10 minutes for a full range of 200miles. The car also has a top speed of 90mph (its a city car) and when you compare it to other electric cars in its price range (12,000 – 18,000 us dollars) that have a top speed of 40-50 mph (I might be over estimating this, it may be more like 25-30mph) it is amazing. Battery powered cars take hours to charge.
Maybe if F1 could try focusing more on electric power we could see more advancement in things like brakes, aerodynamics, suspension, tyres, gearboxes (it has to handle an ungodly amount of torque), reliable charging systems. Also since its a capacitor the brakes can regenerate a lot more electricity so inturn heavy late braking would reward the driver with a large boost of electricity they could use on the exit of a slow turn.
********MOST IMPORTANT PART OF MY POSTS***********
Why do the teams oppose the budget caps exactly? The budget cap is bringing new teams to the Grid. So why do the big teams oppose the new rules?
************************* *********************
these idiots know nothing that isnt true you see if one team goes another one comes its a circle eg-
red bull-out
aston martin-in
its that simple.
Ferari said today: with these rules we don’t intend to participate in 2010. Renault said the same, more or less.
Formula 1: The Premier motorsport, and the holy grail. Why then must it be restricted into a zone more comparable with A1GP or the like.
F1 is money- stop changing everything each day and get some good racng in. If stuff needs changing then why cant the cars have huge engines…
Bring back the eara of turbo charged engines. I reckon the fia should release all rules regarding engine and car body parts. The most creative car should win.
THIS IS MADNESS THERE IS NO OTHER SPORT WITH BUDGET CUTS LET MARKET FORCES TAKE THEIR PART AFTER ALL THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY IS BROKE!!!!!!!
The white heat of technology costs money!
Cap the drivers all on to a flat wage, whatever they drive. Then spend it all on the cars.
Maybe the teams are just using thi as an excuse to pull ouyt of F1. Even Ferrari are haiving financial problems!
MAX MOSELY shld have just been sacked as president of the FIA when he was caught sometime ago with some prostitutes in a german style orgy..
instead of continuing to ruin F1 completely.
the guy is a complete spoiler man..
why not just let the teams that can afford to spend millions on develeping their car just spend.. i mean its their money,and they have the resources..
So wats the big deal?
F1 is a symbol of capitalism.we dont want a budget cap or a race in north korea.the manufacturers will pull out create a new system and f1 will be doomed
Another panic act of the FIA. They know most of the teams are sick and tired of it. They made the teams spend huge amounts of money on KERS and this yrs cars can’t hardly be called advertising. The most ugly machines ever. Ferrari should quit, this is only bad for their image.
@99 Madness? THIS IS F1!!!!
so, Manchester City can offer 120m for Kakà, and the Ferrari can’t do that!?!
all their technologies go directly to the street car, this is just ridiculous…
go back to the old rules.
ferrari is F1 we only watch it to see a red flash go
across the TV.
i am fed up to the back teeth with all the politics and posturing which is ruining the sport i love. The rules seem to change on an almost weekly basis, the letter of the law, and punishment for flouting those laws is never consistantly applied. The sport is rapidly being seen as at best a joke, and at worst corrupt. I do not pretend to know what is happening behind the scenes (or in some select london dungeons) but one thing i do know is this.
if there is a breakaway formula with the big manufacturers leaving f1, if they are allowed to produce the fastest cars possible, as long as its proven safe. if they are allowed to scrap the pointless kers system which is nothing more than PR. If each team had the feedom to use whatever budget it deemed workable. if qualifying was genuingly the fastest driver takes pole instead of the lightest on fuel, and if this formula was free of the tinkering and control freakery of messers moseley and ecclestone….i know one thing..f1 who?….
start of communistic F1 !!
If F1 turns into a one car class where only the drivers compete and the constructors’ championship no longer exists, there’s no reason to carry on. F1 is very much about R&D, and that sort of thing costs a lot of money. Capping the budget is the killing stroke for what F1 stands for.
Two classes to compete in is just ridiculous. Maybe F1 has had it, and they’ve outgrown the world of fair competition. With enough money you can always build a winner.
This is pathetic, why can’t thet just except the budjet cap?
Come on Lewis
Come on Lewis! I dont get it everyones saying let jenson win but we’re not even half way through the season yet! Stupid FIA!
stop it with all this green crap! and the credit crunch boll**ks! let them spend 150mill a year and stop making it ‘green’! f1 is not green! and it shood stay that way! if u dont have the money u should not be in f1! IT IS EXPENSIVE!
come on nico and vettel!
f1 cars cost so much nowadays if they had a little amount of money that would mean the teams would have to spend the money wisely.
ps.go force india
I AGREE MOD, THE TEAMS SHOULD JUST EXEPCT IT
i really think that if adrian sutil had a good car he could really be a serious contender.
Why can’t Max & Bernie, i.e. ‘The F*ck Up Twins’ just go away & DIE?!?! put someone else in charge, somebody that knows something about Formula 1!
Max & Bernie The Bolt are slowly destroying F1.
just a random f1 question but are wankle engines banned?
I am usually one of the first to criticise the FIA.
However- how exactly can they win with this one?
Option 1: They don’t cap budgets and the grids will shrink down to only those that can afford to go spend money with the risk of it all being wasted like Honda did (e.g. Ferrari)
Option 2: Have a budget cap and all the car manufacturers like Ferrari ans Toyota go away and sulk leaving teams like Brawn, Williams and Force India
One question: How can car manufacturers like Toyota complain about being stopped from spending as much as they like when the car companies are laying of workers because they are making massive losses? That is the whole reason Honda quit anyway.
@bensthebest: they’re not banned. Its just that current regulations only allow 2.4l-V8s to be used. So… no rotary engines…
Alright back to the topic:
Cost capping, no refueling, and the now-in-motion no aero rules is actually has some good in all, but maybe Mosley is just pushing his luck too far? He wants this to be done then he needs implement this GRADUALLY. Like maybe start at 120m? (LOL, i know this could be hard for something like ferrari and mclaren to achieve…)
Owh, and I think refueling ban is not a very good idea. Proof: we all know what happened to Massa in Spain…
i would love ferrari to go anyway,they are such bigheads,anyway scrap this stupid budget cap,introduce new rules,back to the v 10’s,no aero bits apart from wings,reintroduce michelin tyres with bridgestone to make it more competitive and just 4 engines,ferrari,mercedes, renault and toyota,max mosley and bernie are clueless,axe them!
i hope ferrari leave it will make way for teams like aston martin so good bye ferrari
liam, i agree about the aero bits, and more than one tyre manufacturer (as long as we never end up with the debacle that was indianapolis again) can only be a good thing,and its definately time herr moseley and the puppetmaster moved on. but we need more than 4 engine manufacturers.
on a none whingey note i am looking forward to the name of senna being on the grid once again some time in the future.
awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
stop using the term gate to describe every furore its getting tiring! Try and come up with an original term please
as much as i hate ferrari, i hope they stay in F1
who will i laugh at now if ferrari won’t score a point or fail to finish a race?!?!?!?! hahaha!
MAXIMMORAL MOSEXLEY AND BERNIE ECCLESTUPID – THE TWO CLOWNS OF THE F1 CIRCUS are at it again trying to ruin F1 motorsport!!!
Money is not the only road to success but testing bans and KERS are so not F1 like. F1 should be cool and fast and furious. Now it are lame ugly hybrid ducks. How in the world did all these petrol heads in F1 allow this FIA idiots to introduce all this madness? Are they so bureaucratic organized? About time the FOTA show guts and stop the FIA !
Brawn GP will win the championship and also all the teams were thinking of pulling out thety were just waiting for a bigger team to come out and admit they were first
Brawn GP will win the championship, Bernie c*ck!!!
I can’t simply understand who do Max and Bernie think they are? How can they dare to decide who will spend what? We are talking about economic and technologic giants like Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Ferrari, Renault who have been around for what, 100 years? Is it possible that one of them will ever need FIA or someone else, to protect itself from itself? If F1 is no longer sustainable with its current economic status and any constructive decision can’t be made by all parties involved, then it will be destroyed and something new will come up just because everybody agrees. Not because one or two who think he knows the best. There has always been one and only common point between incompetent ones, those do whatever they do just because they can.
how can red bull be going? theyve done soooo well with J B. i think Max Mosley should be replaced.
i think that f1 is getting worse by the year, beacause max mosley needs to get a life
hey man waz up? yeh F1 getting pretty rubbish man yeh cos martin brundell talk about problems lot ( i always bunk of school so i dont know howw too sppell) mate innit puff puff
heres the standings
1. Jenson Button Brawn GP 41
2. Rubens Barrichello Brawn GP 27
3. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing 23
4. Mark Webber Red Bull Racing 15.5
5. Jarno Trulli Toyota 14.5
6. Timo Glock Toyota 12
7. Fernando Alonso Renault 9
8. Lewis Hamilton McLaren Mercedes 9
9. Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 6
10. Nico Rosberg Williams 4.5
11. Heikki Kovalainen McLaren Mercedes 4
12. Sebastien Buemi Scuderia Toro Rosso 3
13. Felipe Massa Ferrari 3
14. Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 3
15. Sebastien Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso 1
So the teams with the budget cap get full technical freedom.
uh-huh.
And how doe you suppose they’ll develop said technology? Paying the staff in corn?
Moronic.
i am all for the budget cap, but ONLY if the cap is high enough.. at the very least 100million, or 60 million with things like engines, and salaries, excluded. i really do like the idea of technical freedom, but still keeping the costs at a much more manageable sum for everyone. much better then all of these shitty rules and restrictions we currently have ><
one thing i am wondering though.. is that this MIGHT lead into a vicious cycle and in a few years will be right back where we started. say the budget cap gets implemented and moveable wings are back in along with all the aero bits. yea! the cars look cool and their wicked fast! few season in… oo nooo no ones able to pass anyone because of the bad air coming off the car in front is making our car unstable. FIA comes in, alright heres a ton of aero restrictions and just because were stupid and lazy lets use the same ones we had in 2009! and heres some other retarted and unnecessary banns.. such as your tire warmers, refueling, and why not, lets bring back grooved tires!
all of the rules for F1 should be made by the teams, for the teams, the FIA should do nothing else but just be called the keeper of the rule book that the teams created and once in a while poke their noses in in case they find anyone cheating or unfair practices.
thanks for the standings first gear
max mosleys bottom
lamborghinis rule!
Who said Ferrari must replace F1 with LMS or… Nascar????? O__O
What about the IRL??? What about the Ferrari wins the Indy 500???
If Ferrari walks, so do the fans. That means Maxi is up a creek without a paddle!
£200m budget cap next year with new rules. Free up the engines!
Then reduce the cap by £20m per season. Easy does it.
i saw today that a few more teams will be coming to f1 like usf1
video here
F1 Bahrain Highlights 2004-2008
what is it with chavs reunited?
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO’S
£40 million budget cap this is designed to destroy ferrari and mclaren, all thought out by max mosley as retaliation.. why is this old pervert allowd to ruin the sport
I AGREE WITH 149 COMMENT COMPLETLY.
F1 has always been about the team that can build the best car! If you don’t have the money, find another form of racing. Mosley and Bernie are pandering to the small teams and effectively telling the bigger teams to get lost – what a shame.
F1 won’t exist without the bigger teams.
LEAVE THINGS ALONE…..
AGREE WITH 149 COMMENT COMPLETLY.
NICE VID BOND!
;):P:D
SPANNER
THAT IS’T NICE.:(
THAT IS’T NICE.